It's Not Fine -- Specific Flaws With the New IR35 Tool

[RonBW]

Given the date on that post, was it referring to the beta or the live version of the tool?

I know I've read something on their site which was about the beta, which looks similar to this post, but they may have done the same tests with the live tool as well.

[DaveB]

Given the date on that post, was it referring to the beta or the live version of the tool?

I know I've read something on their site which was about the beta, which looks similar to this post, but they may have done the same tests with the live tool as well.

The Beta is the live tool.

Since GDS got hold of anything web related in Govt. everything is Beta now.

Yes, I know.

[RonBW]

The Beta is the live tool.

Since GDS got hold of anything web related in Govt. everything is Beta now.

Yes, I know.

I meant that the article came out very quickly for it to be used on the live tool, so was asking whether it was done against the HMRC ESS site (which says beta) or whether it was against the private beta tests that went on.

Given the date on the article, I would guess that it was against the private beta rather than the public live (beta)

[DaveB]

Not just us who have issue with it.

Accounting Web - IR35 Tool test Drive

Needs registration to read the full article but they aren't spammy.

Summary is that it is inaccurate, doesn't follow or simply ignores case law, displays HMRC bias towards employment and should not be relied upon regardless of the answer given.

[LondonManc]

Not just us who have issue with it.

Accounting Web - IR35 Tool test Drive

Needs registration to read the full article but they aren't spammy.

Summary is that it is inaccurate, doesn't follow or simply ignores case law, displays HMRC bias towards employment and should not be relied upon regardless of the answer given.

So, get a QDOS outside declaration, working practices agreed outside and there will be a good chance you'll win a court case?

[DaveB]

So, get a QDOS outside declaration, working practices agreed outside and there will be a good chance you'll win a court case?

In theory yes, in practice who knows. HMRC are actively encouraging PS bodies to throw their contractors under a bus with regard to IR35.

[eek]

In theory yes, in practice who knows. HMRC are actively encouraging PS bodies to throw their contractors under a bus with regard to IR35.

Not quite. HMRC are actively trying to dissuade PS bodies from recruiting contractors....

[RonBW]

So, get a QDOS outside declaration, working practices agreed outside and there will be a good chance you'll win a court case?

If your working practices are outside then you will win the case every time (on the presumption that you have competent lawyers)

[LondonManc]

Not quite. HMRC are actively trying to dissuade PS bodies from recruiting contractors....

What do they want, green graduate consultants on three times the price for 10% of the skills and experience?

[DaveB]

Not quite. HMRC are actively trying to dissuade PS bodies from recruiting contractors....

HMRC don't have an issue with PSB's using contractors, they just want us all paying tax like permies. Pressuring the PSB's with things like the status tool and behind the scenes comm's to execs are the means to the end.