IR35 PS - So anyone had the discussion yet?

[difficulttimes]

Interesting..

So I read this on the article posted on here by QDOS

To put a bit of context around it, if we take IT consultants as an example, between 75-80% we review are classed as outside IR35 in our opinion. In terms of testing our opinion, HMRC and/or independent tribunals have agreed with our view in over 1,500 cases and disagreed in just three.

So does that mean this so called case law is based on cases that they win 0.2% of the time??? I say this as I heard from a senior person here that HMRC win 50% of IR35 cases... haha

[northernladuk]

I think your argument isn't really a complete one TBH but IMO this isn't the thread to discuss it.

[cojak]

So does that mean this so called case law is based on cases that they win 0.2% of the time??? I say this as I heard from a senior person here that HMRC win 50% of IR35 cases... haha

Ask them to give you the source of those statistics, written proof is always required for these kinds of wild assertions.

[eek]

Ask them to give you the source of those statistics, written proof is always required for these kinds of wild assertions.

Both figures are probably true. Hmrc will win the cases without support, they lose the ones with support and probably walk away quickly.

[SueEllen]

Both figures are probably true. Hmrc will win the cases without support, they lose the ones with support and probably walk away quickly.

^^^ This

Some cases are quietly dropped due to people having support.

[psychocandy]

Pretty much yeah, but his gig will naturally expire at the end of Feb so he doesn't need to.

Difficult to take decisive action when you dont have all the information.

Like barry says my gig ends end Feb which works out well. Extension offered but I have refused until something is sorted out.

[psychocandy]

Ah, well by process of elimination, it's a dodgy onshore arrangement. Or low-hanging fruit as HMRC would see it. Never trust an offering where the contractor is taking all the risk and the promoter will have gone missing by the time Hector comes calling.

But isnt this just pulling you one step away from the PS, as if you were working for a consultancy on site at PS - as many of us are?

No-one knows for sure yet whether they;re caught or not.

[LondonManc]

But isnt this just pulling you one step away from the PS, as if you were working for a consultancy on site at PS - as many of us are?

No-one knows for sure yet whether they;re caught or not.

How are they proposing to get the rest of your money to you? Some sort of bonus or commission scheme? Like those commission schemes that IR35 was brought in to get rid of?

[psychocandy]

That's why I've put a sticky up on this.

I can see many people not following it because they will think 'contracting = more money' still applies.

The only thing that's stopping people here is knowing the probability and consequences of HMRC hitting them with an enquiry.

There will be many who don't want to know the risks of taking up with a dodgy umbrella, they just want to see the extra £££'s in front of them.

When they come here whinging about said investigations I will laugh and point at them for an appalling lack of common sense and due diligence.

For me,

Probability of consultancies not being an exception - 50%
Probability of end PS client labelling inside IR35 - 50%

Consequences - Probably about 20% less take home.

BUT

Probability of HMRC coming hunting for previous years for everyone like me - 95% IMHO
Probability of them winning - 95% IMHO

Consequences - an eyewatering amount of tax/NI for the last two years.

[LondonManc]

For me,

Probability of consultancies not being an exception - 50%
Probability of end PS client labelling inside IR35 - 50%

Consequences - Probably about 20% less take home.

BUT

Probability of HMRC coming hunting for previous years for everyone like me - 95% IMHO
Probability of them winning - 95% IMHO

Consequences - an eyewatering amount of tax/NI for the last two years.

Very much varies depending upon the amount of expenses you incur. If I'd been staying away and doing PS work, I'd definitely get the hell out of Dodge asap.