IR35 PS - So anyone had the discussion yet?

[runandbecome]

Another week head down working through the products we are taking to market. We're waiting on the final draft (30th I think) and a partner selection exercise before launching.

To remind everyone. Nothing has changed in IR35 legislation, this is about education and assurance. At our firm, those contractors who are genuinely outside will be very well supported.

So glad there are recruiters and accountants properly studying this.

I know this board likes to be a bit doom and gloom, but there is a lot in this bill that is almost unworkable, not just for the contractor but for the public bodies.
People seem surprised that public sector bodies are holding on till feb to give a statement of action.

Where I am are liking to be doing this but they have to, as they have little to no direction from the government.

Our networks team has around 23 out of 27 as contract staff.

The effect to I.T will be collosal if even half decide to suddenly move on.

[runandbecome]

So glad there are recruiters and accountants properly studying this.

I know this board likes to be a bit doom and gloom, but there is a lot in this bill that is almost unworkable, not just for the contractor but for the public bodies.
People seem surprised that public sector bodies are holding on till feb to give a statement of action.

Where I am are liking to be doing this but they have to, as they have little to no direction from the government.

Our networks team has around 23 out of 27 as contract staff.

The effect to I.T will be collosal if even half decide to suddenly move on.

Also call me an optomist but I don't believe it's all over yet, I'm trying to find more details but the CTO at the Home Office has apparently said something along the lines of "without contractors I'd be very stuck" and that about their importance in the I.T industry. I'll try to get more details, apparently it was from a techcity conference from Croydon which is where they are based

[b r]

So glad there are recruiters and accountants properly studying this.

I spoke to two Agencies yesterday and one didn't know anything and said I'm waiting for something from my Manager to tell me and the second was absolutely aware but felt that the PS would suddenly now start saying everything was OUTSIDE IR35 to get around it plus the lack of expenses problem (i.e. only folk who live near can take the contract).

It did make me think that maybe there is a discriminatory angle to this, for those of us who don't live in/near the large urban areas we're more than likely staying over for contracts and so generate living expenses over and above the norm. Maybe our countryside MP's (who DO get their expenses covered for their gig job) would have some 'sympathy'?

[SueEllen]

I spoke to two Agencies yesterday and one didn't know anything and said I'm waiting for something from my Manager to tell me and the second was absolutely aware but felt that the PS would suddenly now start saying everything was OUTSIDE IR35 to get around it plus the lack of expenses problem (i.e. only folk who live near can take the contract).

It did make me think that maybe there is a discriminatory angle to this, for those of us who don't live in/near the large urban areas we're more than likely staying over for contracts and so generate living expenses over and above the norm. Maybe our countryside MP's (who DO get their expenses covered for their gig job) would have some 'sympathy'?

Nope.

You need to phrase your letter mainly as an employment rights issue not a financial one. Link it to Uber and other tribunals were workers are employees.

[runandbecome]

Also One thing that hasn't essentially changed is the law.
If you are outside IR35 by most measures there is no reason why tomorrow you should be inside.

The only thing bringing us inside is the fear of the PS or the agency that they will pay hefty back pay of the unpaid tax.

Maybe there could even be an industry round this instead of insuring the contractor the insurance could insure the agency or the PS client.

[northernladuk]

Also One thing that hasn't essentially changed is the law.
If you are outside IR35 by most measures there is no reason why tomorrow you should be inside.

The only thing bringing us inside is the fear of the PS or the agency that they will pay hefty back pay of the unpaid tax.

Maybe there could even be an industry round this instead of insuring the contractor the insurance could insure the agency or the PS client.

Depends if they change the contract and remove your pillars of defense.

[eek]

Also One thing that hasn't essentially changed is the law.
If you are outside IR35 by most measures there is no reason why tomorrow you should be inside.

The only thing bringing us inside is the fear of the PS or the agency that they will pay hefty back pay of the unpaid tax.

Maybe there could even be an industry round this instead of insuring the contractor the insurance could insure the agency or the PS client.

There is a difference between insuring a lot of people for a smallish amount of money against a very unlikely event and a few people for an insane amount of money that could actually happen...

As for the measures for inside and outside HMRC believe the substitution clause is probably never used and Mutual obligation isn't a valid reason anymore given zero hour contracts... Yes I know the law says different but you can see why they have their view that SDC is the only valid test...

[cojak]

So glad there are recruiters and accountants properly studying this.

I know this board likes to be a bit doom and gloom, but there is a lot in this bill that is almost unworkable, not just for the contractor but for the public bodies.
People seem surprised that public sector bodies are holding on till feb to give a statement of action.

Where I am are liking to be doing this but they have to, as they have little to no direction from the government.

Our networks team has around 23 out of 27 as contract staff.

The effect to I.T will be collosal if even half decide to suddenly move on.

Our doom and gloom comes from long observation of HMRC and their lack of concern for any other governmental department but themselves and their own CSFs...

[MrStu]

They're cutting it fine and absolutely pooing their pants. Bad planning and bad implementation of a bad idea

Yeah they're quite scared, I think. I know their contract with the client is one with a very slim margin of profit, so them suddenly having to pay our tax and NI would be unworkable for them.

That said, I think that the client is realising just what the impact of a number of the contractors just upping and leaving would be. The effect on some major and important projects would be catastrophic. The one I'm on would be dead in the water. I'm now not so sure that they will say we're inside.

Time will tell, but, they are cutting it very fine, because if I get an offer between now and the end of March (invoice weekly anyway) then I'll take it.

[northernladuk]

They pay your NI and tax on your behalf. They don't pay for it. Shouldn't really affect their margins? Only your margins should be affected.