Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[seeourbee]

I'm talking about EMPLOYERS NI not EMPLOYEES

[teapot418]

So in my view the new rules are quite different: old uses are saying I am an employee of my own company (which technically I never disagreed with!) but the new rules are saying I'm a deemed employee of the end client. That's a big change.

No, the question has not changed. If the intermediaries were removed, would you look like an employee of the end client. IR35 has not changed - the party that makes the determination has changed, and responsibility for operating PAYE has changed.

[teapot418]

I'm talking about EMPLOYERS NI not EMPLOYEES

Under IR35 at the moment, yourCo would pay EMPLOYERS NI. Under the new rules, the payer will pay it.

It would be well worth reading some of the guides on IR35 as it stands now, and what is changing.

[seeourbee]

But what my company received previously would have been net of ERS NI, just like a normal employee would be. In that you pay tax and EES NI. So how would they try reclaim ERS NI off old clients, I presume then that they don't or can't and the best they get is the deemed IR35 payment

[teapot418]

But what my company received previously would have been net of ERS NI, just like a normal employee would be. In that you pay tax and EES NI. So how would they try reclaim ERS NI off old clients, I presume then that they don't or can't and the best they get is the deemed IR35 payment

You're missing the point. The deemed IR35 payment includes employers NI. Under the current implementation, yourCo is responsible for paying it.

Where are you based? There's an ipse IR35 event in London next week - might be worth going along if you can get there.

[seeourbee]

I can't remember the calculation in detail but if you received 100k in invoices, the old rules try to convert that into a gross salary on which you (now an employee) pays tax and EES NI. The 12% ERS NI should normally have been paid by the client. It can't physically be paid by my co. As there's no cash left. So granted that's not how the IR 35 deemed payment is calculated but does seem utterly insane to me.

I can't stand IPSE

[teapot418]

I can't remember the calculation in detail but if you received 100k in invoices, the old rules try to convert that into a gross salary on which you (now an employee) pays tax and EES NI. The 12% ERS NI should normally have been paid by the client. It can't physically be paid by my co. As there's no cash left. So granted that's not how the IR 35 deemed payment is calculated but does seem utterly insane to me.

I can't stand IPSE

The ERS NI is not paid by the client under the current implementation. Having no cash left may well limit the potential damage, although it is not impossible for them to transfer the debt to you. Other people are also running IR35 events - some of the accountants, but I don't know where you find dates. Get along to one if you can.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/d/unite...ular&sort=best

[seeourbee]

Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

But it's the same as asking an employee to pay employers NI. You would actually be worse off than being an employee ?!

[MrMarkyMark]

But it's the same as asking an employee to pay employers NI. You would actually be worse off than being an employee ?!

Penny


Drops

[seeourbee]

I've never done the calculations in detail but bottom line does the old rules leave you with bigger tax bill than an employee. If it does that can't possibly make sense as it therefore actually punishes you for being a Psc rather than out you on equal footing as e'ee