Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[LondonManc]

TBH, I find your posts incredibly confusing. A (hopefully) simple question for you: are you delivering tiered support for a PS client, sitting at the client site, and sitting alongside BoS contractors from other consultancies, agencies, and perm staff that are doing similar things?

Just between the grown ups, I'm assuming that you think the "doing similar things" part is important; i.e., there's merit to being a specialist brought in to deliver/support something, if the client doesn't have that skill already?

[jamesbrown]

Just between the grown ups, I'm assuming that you think the "doing similar things" part is important; i.e., there's merit to being a specialist brought in to deliver/support something, if the client doesn't have that skill already?

I don't think that will be part of the initial determination about whether the rules apply to a private sector company that supplies a PS client. Rather, that will be part of the secondary test about whether IR35 applies, in which case a specialist that delivers something outside of BAU would be in a much stronger position, of course (assuming the PS client wants to play ball). However, it does give a sense of the arrangement in which PC finds himself. On the one hand, he states that the consultancy is delivering a "fully outsourced service", but on the other hand he says many things that appear to contradict this - hence my question about whether he's a BoS contractor alongside other BoS contractors and perm staff doing similar things. In that case, it isn't going to be a "fully outsourced function", i.e. his consultancy is acting as a body shop, essentially.

[LondonManc]

I don't think that will be part of the initial determination about whether the rules apply to a private sector company that supplies a PS client. Rather, that will be part of the secondary test about whether IR35 applies, in which case a specialist that delivers something outside of BAU would be in a much stronger position, of course (assuming the PS client wants to play ball). However, it does give a sense of the arrangement in which PC finds himself. On the one hand, he states that the consultancy is delivering a "fully outsourced service", but on the other hand he says many things that appear to contradict this - hence my question about whether he's a BoS contractor alongside other BoS contractors and perm staff doing similar things. In that case, it isn't going to be a "fully outsourced function", i.e. his consultancy is acting as a body shop, essentially.

Thanks. Is there anything in the examples (I've not seen anything myself) which covers associate relationships? It's an engagement model that a couple of clients have used when working directly with them as a true B2B model, proper B2B engagement terms, payment up to 56 days, etc.

[jamesbrown]

Thanks. Is there anything in the examples (I've not seen anything myself) which covers associate relationships? It's an engagement model that a couple of clients have used when working directly with them as a true B2B model, proper B2B engagement terms, payment up to 56 days, etc.

Not that I recall. The illustrations are terribly biased, as always, and the only example that illustrates the first tier decision (i.e a private company that does not supply labour) concerns the construction of a hospital for the NHS, which is pretty black and white.

[LondonManc]

Not that I recall. The illustrations are terribly biased, as always, and the only example that illustrates the first tier decision (i.e a private company that does not supply labour) concerns the construction of a hospital for the NHS, which is pretty black and white.

This coffee shop in Cornwall dream is looking more and more appealing.

[pictavia]

This has been a very interesting and helpful discussion - thank you!

My biggest concern is the retrospective action and for me, this means walking away from a project at a very critical time. The client will not be happy and with the rate caps, they'll be looking to pay less than 200 per day.

So will HMRC start sending IR35 demands to psc contractors who are deemed to be inside IR35 after April?
If many of us have thought about it, then surely HMRC must have considered this type of action as part of their plans at some point.

[b r]

My OH got this recently from their agent in regard to their PS contract:

I haven't received any communication from our Legal teams yet, it will be at some point in January.

The official HMRC legislation doesn't come out until end of Feb so any communication from us in January will be subject to change depending on what that says.

For now it's BAU.

Basically, stay at your post - keep earning commission for me.

[LondonManc]

My OH got this recently from their agent in regard to their PS contract:

I haven't received any communication from our Legal teams yet, it will be at some point in January.

The official HMRC legislation doesn't come out until end of Feb so any communication from us in January will be subject to change depending on what that says.

For now it's BAU.

Basically, stay at your post - keep earning commission for me.

Or leave it too late to do anything but accept the shafting you'll get - end of Feb means that you'll be received last payment after April 6th, leaving your whole engagement open to an IR35-sized rogering.

[eek]

Or leave it too late to do anything but accept the shafting you'll get - end of Feb means that you'll be received last payment after April 6th, leaving your whole engagement open to an IR35-sized rogering.

To be fair its not going to be obvious to your typical money grabbing agent that a person paid after April 6 has to be checked against the new rules and that check could when someone asks HMRC a difficult question result in the entire contract being deemed as being inside IR35 from the beginning..

But its a risk you really don't want to be taking so resign asap as I'm sure everyone else around you already is...

[LondonManc]

To be fair its not going to be obvious to your typical money grabbing agent that a person paid after April 6 has to be checked against the new rules and that check could when someone asks HMRC a difficult question result in the entire contract being deemed as being inside IR35 from the beginning..

But its a risk you really don't want to be taking so resign asap as I'm sure everyone else around you already is...

I'm in private sector - I think everyone on here is waiting to see the public sector fall out before planning for the longer term. If there are bigger rates inside IR35 longer term, then it may be a case of having an extra two figures in mind for inside gigs in the future.