Edge EBT thread

[Dilbert]

Make a decision....

There is too much noise on this forum, my take is simple, join a group, then the group owner can email members privately if people want a meeting, instead of organising everything in public.

I agree. We're going round and round in circles here. My view, for what its worth, is that HMRC are wrong in their assessment and that our scheme was totally legitimate. Personally I'm not prepared to lie down, roll over and accept this unjust tax demand. It may cost me a bit more money to defend my position but I honestly feel we're in the right so why give up without a fight?

However, what does the little guy do against the mighty HMRC and its bottomless pit of legal resource? The only recourse is for us all to band together, show unity and pool resources. I've spoken to the Dandy and to Saleos and having weighed up the options I'm going to throw my hat into the ring with Saleos.

That's me personally. People can make up their own minds obviously but this forum has been open for months and months now and at some point we've got to commit to a course of action instead of constantly speculating and writing HMRC's case for them.

[david se london]

decision time

Saleos has explained his rationale, has existing Edge clients & his offer looks more coherent than anything else Ive seen. Ive gone with Saleos to support attaining critical mass. No offence to anyone else - we are all still in the same boat eventually, but got to stop pissing round the pot.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I agree. We're going round and round in circles here. My view, for what its worth, is that HMRC are wrong in their assessment and that our scheme was totally legitimate. Personally I'm not prepared to lie down, roll over and accept this unjust tax demand. It may cost me a bit more money to defend my position but I honestly feel we're in the right so why give up without a fight?

However, what does the little guy do against the mighty HMRC and its bottomless pit of legal resource? The only recourse is for us all to band together, show unity and pool resources. I've spoken to the Dandy and to Saleos and having weighed up the options I'm going to throw my hat into the ring with Saleos.

That's me personally. People can make up their own minds obviously but this forum has been open for months and months now and at some point we've got to commit to a course of action instead of constantly speculating and writing HMRC's case for them.

Well said.

Whoever you go with, don't bombard them with emails all the time asking what's happening or engaging in endless speculation. Remember, this is going to be a long drawn out process and there will be periods of inactivity. You want the advisor working on the case not wasting time responding to emails.

We (ntrt) send out a monthly email [Bcc:] newsletter to our members to keep them updated of any developments. This is something the group(s) may want to consider.

[Steptoe]

Decision Time

Agree in principle with the last few threads. There has been a lot of noise and a lack of action.

I, like a lot of other people here, am guilty of sitting on the fence and waiting to see how things develop. I have looked at the 2 proposals put forward and always hoped that there would be a merging of the groups making the decision with which one to go with that much easier.

As that hasn’t happened yet, I don’t think I can continue to delay indefinitely and I have decided to go with the Saleos group.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make but I would advise everyone that, as has been stated by many individuals previously, HMRC are reading these posts so be very careful of what you post lest you inadvertently give them ammunition which they can subsequently use against us.

[cerner]

Before Christmas I'd like to get shot of this £1K I am holding onto and then at least have a few nights of decent sleep. I don't quite agree with Cerners analysis of the situation of waiting until FTT before mobilising a Group.

The most sensible approach I stated never say wait till FTT before mobilising a group. If you check again as per below. Forming a group is the first stage and that can start NOW. Even though I believe you will only get potentially about 25% of the numbers that will no doubt be scrambling to join as step 5/6 approaches. I'm just stating do NOT hand over money to group organisers until stage 6 as per below. Hope you understand now.


1. Form a group (Saleos group seems sensible option) as 'sleeper cell'
2. Dig in and wait until HMRC picks someone to use as Edge EBT test case.
3. If HMRC wins the test case and contact us to notify us that a test case was lost and urging us to pay up
4. The 'sleeper cell' (Saleos) group is immediately activated into action
5. Group organisers make contact with and urge the losing taxpayer to appeal the ruling with promise of full financial backing from the group.
6. Group organisers will now begin to collect fighting funds from the group members in the lead up to the appeal hearing.


Even when we approach stage 6, I will advise the group members meet Saleos for a meeting in person to plan the next strategy going forward. This will also be an opportunity to check Identity of Saleos with passport ID check etc.. and taking photocopy of it for keeps. I WILL STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST HANDING MONEY TO SOME VIRTUAL PERSON OFF THE INTERNET YOU HAVEN'T MET IN PERSON HOWEVER CREDIBLE THEY MIGHT APPEAR TO BE

[malvolio]

Perhaps you guys are beginning to appreciate just how difficult it was to get the PCG up and running...


I don't think you are building a long lasting structure like that, of course, but while wishing all the best of luck, keep f***ing focused on what's important; putting up front money is not your biggest worry right now. Learn how the processes work and what barriers you are facing (there are many). And perhaps find someone who really understand Risk Management.

[ScottW]

TheDandy has clearly put a lot of work and effort into his group and approach and is to be commended for that.

Having read and considered both TheDandy and the Saleos options I am minded to go with Saleos at the first sign HMRC progress this in the New Year.

I see no immediate reason why TheDandy approach cannot be reconciled with Saleos and their ideas maybe run in parallel as a single group. Only TheDandy and Saleos can negotiate and discuss that to see if it is appropriate – but I think it would be to the benefit of all if they did – and would kindly ask them to at least consider discussing this.

I think the next aim should be to ensure that talk is moved offline from a public facing site to a secure area, even if it is just an 'approved and vetted' email distribution lists once the participants in group(s) are identified.

In the meantime the earth keeps turning so everybody have a peaceful Christmas and a good New Year.

[convict]

I suggest you do what we did for TRM/Cherrylon/Trentburg; Setup a group
https://support.google.com/groups/answer/2464926?hl=en and allow people to join only if they can provide proof of scheme membership.

You can decide a plan of action and discuss your EBT implementation away from prying eyes.

[Rissk95]

Edge EBT - HMRC Assessment 2009/10

All,

I would be interested in forming a group to go through the HRMC appeal / challenge process together. I have also tried contacting Edge on various occasion with no success.

I have been granted agreement to my appeal and postponement - so the next steps are immenient and it would be better to have others in the same position supporting.

[K12AN]

Assuming we've all lodge our appeals and they have been acknowledged - shouldn't it just be a case of sitting tight, cooperating with HMRC and waiting for the outcome of several similar EBT cases which are already in advanced stages?
There is no lead test case for Edge at the moment and there are several other very similar cases which are in progress - these cases are well funded and well represented...unlike the Boyle case. Many of these EBT schemes were designed and implemented by the same people.
The outcome of these will clarify the HMRC position with regards to EBT schemes.
Only after this will I know what my next steps should be.