HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[DotasScandal]

Nothing new...

www.dotas-scandal.org

[varunksingh]

What is new? Speech is what government wants queen to say.

And from what I know and have seen many getting affected are not even trying to meet their local MPs. With this attitude government will do what they wish. Those who have waited for others to take initiative but have done nothing personally are more to blame than government.

I hope I am wrong but this bill only get a fair treatment in courts and by that time many families will be destroyed. But that should be ok as these are hard working professional who will earning another half a million in coming years. Because these contractor spend their lives working hard and gaining skills instead of being on holidays it is ok to punish them. Punish the high earners and get a better society. Way to go...

[SantaClaus]

And let's remember why Section 58 got passed in the 2008 Finance Act and we got landed with retro tax...

... because everyone had their heads in the sand too and could not be arsed to get off their backside and go and see their fecking MP. As a result, Parliament was half empty at the time of the vote and most MPs hadn't a clue what they were voting for.

Wake-up call people. Go and see your MP at his/her surgery after work tomorrow!

Apologies for my bad language!

[dezze]

And let's remember why Section 58 got passed in the 2008 Finance Act and we got landed with retro tax...

... because everyone had their heads in the sand too and could not be arsed to get off their backside and go and see their fecking MP. As a result, Parliament was half empty at the time of the vote and most MPs hadn't a clue what they were voting for.

Wake-up call people. Go and see your MP at his/her surgery after work tomorrow!

Apologies for my bad language!

When is the actual vote? The earliest I can see my MP is Friday 20th June....

[MrO666]

In a majority of cases, NIC's are not on the table. Legally it's more or less impossible for HMRC to pursue them.

Tax debts can be transferred from an employer to an employee. NIC debts can ONLY be transferred from an employer to employee, IF the employee was also a director of the company.

That's 100% enshrined in law.......HMRC can't do zip about that. If they were to ask for it, you can just respond with the legal stance and they will shut up.

I've not come across a single person (including those who have settled their DA's with HMRC and paid up) who have been hit with NIC demands.

Obviously there may be scenarios where they can ask, but in the case of Sanzar it's a non-starter.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

In a majority of cases, NIC's are not on the table. Legally it's more or less impossible for HMRC to pursue them.

Tax debts can be transferred from an employer to an employee. NIC debts can ONLY be transferred from an employer to employee, IF the employee was also a director of the company.

That's 100% enshrined in law.......HMRC can't do zip about that. If they were to ask for it, you can just respond with the legal stance and they will shut up.

I've not come across a single person (including those who have settled their DA's with HMRC and paid up) who have been hit with NIC demands.

Obviously there may be scenarios where they can ask, but in the case of Sanzar it's a non-starter.

Not sure that will be the case http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/tiin/2012/tiin8003.pdf

Legislation will be introduced in Finance Bill 2013 to revise Part 7 to include two new information provisions that will be implemented through secondary legislation. Both concern
the periodic information that promoters are required to provide to HMRC about clients (client lists). The first provision concerns a requirement for the client to provide the promoter with
information that can be subsequently included on the promoter’s client list. HMRC will discuss with promoters the consequential changes required to the client list system.
The second provision is an information power that will enable HMRC to seek further information from a promoter where the client is an intermediary rather than the end user of the scheme.
The Information Regulations will be amended to prescribe the information to be provided under the new Part 7 provisions and the time limits for providing it. They will also be
amended, using existing Part 7 provisions, following further consultation on draft regulations, to extend the information HMRC obtains about a disclosed scheme and scheme users.
The Descriptions Regulations will be amended, following further consultation on draft regulations, to revise and extend the hallmarks.
The NICs Regulations will be amended so that changes to tax legislation, to the extent they apply to income tax, will be extended to NICs and come into force at the same time.

[MrO666]

Not sure that will be the case http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/tiin/2012/tiin8003.pdf

Legislation will be introduced in Finance Bill 2013 to revise Part 7 to include two new information provisions that will be implemented through secondary legislation. Both concern
the periodic information that promoters are required to provide to HMRC about clients (client lists). The first provision concerns a requirement for the client to provide the promoter with
information that can be subsequently included on the promoter’s client list. HMRC will discuss with promoters the consequential changes required to the client list system.
The second provision is an information power that will enable HMRC to seek further information from a promoter where the client is an intermediary rather than the end user of the scheme.
The Information Regulations will be amended to prescribe the information to be provided under the new Part 7 provisions and the time limits for providing it. They will also be
amended, using existing Part 7 provisions, following further consultation on draft regulations, to extend the information HMRC obtains about a disclosed scheme and scheme users.
The Descriptions Regulations will be amended, following further consultation on draft regulations, to revise and extend the hallmarks.
The NICs Regulations will be amended so that changes to tax legislation, to the extent they apply to income tax, will be extended to NICs and come into force at the same time.

The information I had was given by the tax division of Grant Thornton. So as it stands today, NIC's will not be sought......although anything can change.

With regards to trying to retrospectively recover NIC's from people who have already settled......good luck with that one. Grant Thornton stated that should HMRC attempt to make a claim for NIC against somebody who has had their appeal determined and have paid in full, it would be VERY VERY difficult for them to justify their approach, as they would have been in full knowledge that NIC's would have been due when the original DA was issues and subsequent appeal was settled, so they will in fact have been negligent in their recovery approach.

In addition, where an appeal has been determined and settled and the 4 year window for the year in question has lapsed, then they would be time barred anyway. Remember the 6 year rule is only enforceable where the tax payer has been negligent......where they have supplied scheme details on their self assessments, HMRC have no claim in excess of 4 years.....and they know it (hence the mad panic to get the original DA's out in time).

I'm pretty sure they will be time barred on this one for 08-09 and 09-10 regardless, as they have never made any reference to NIC's in their DA's etc, so to come and ask for it now would actually be a new demand.......

[vern19]

The information I had was given by the tax division of Grant Thornton. So as it stands today, NIC's will not be sought......although anything can change.

With regards to trying to retrospectively recover NIC's from people who have already settled......good luck with that one. Grant Thornton stated that should HMRC attempt to make a claim for NIC against somebody who has had their appeal determined and have paid in full, it would be VERY VERY difficult for them to justify their approach, as they would have been in full knowledge that NIC's would have been due when the original DA was issues and subsequent appeal was settled, so they will in fact have been negligent in their recovery approach.

In addition, where an appeal has been determined and settled and the 4 year window for the year in question has lapsed, then they would be time barred anyway. Remember the 6 year rule is only enforceable where the tax payer has been negligent......where they have supplied scheme details on their self assessments, HMRC have no claim in excess of 4 years.....and they know it (hence the mad panic to get the original DA's out in time).

I'm pretty sure they will be time barred on this one for 08-09 and 09-10 regardless, as they have never made any reference to NIC's in their DA's etc, so to come and ask for it now would actually be a new demand.......

Agreed. My tax advisor has sought advice from a tax barrister

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

The information I had was given by the tax division of Grant Thornton. So as it stands today, NIC's will not be sought......although anything can change.

With regards to trying to retrospectively recover NIC's from people who have already settled......good luck with that one. Grant Thornton stated that should HMRC attempt to make a claim for NIC against somebody who has had their appeal determined and have paid in full, it would be VERY VERY difficult for them to justify their approach, as they would have been in full knowledge that NIC's would have been due when the original DA was issues and subsequent appeal was settled, so they will in fact have been negligent in their recovery approach.

In addition, where an appeal has been determined and settled and the 4 year window for the year in question has lapsed, then they would be time barred anyway. Remember the 6 year rule is only enforceable where the tax payer has been negligent......where they have supplied scheme details on their self assessments, HMRC have no claim in excess of 4 years.....and they know it (hence the mad panic to get the original DA's out in time).

I'm pretty sure they will be time barred on this one for 08-09 and 09-10 regardless, as they have never made any reference to NIC's in their DA's etc, so to come and ask for it now would actually be a new demand.......

I don't think there's any suggestion that NIC's could be applied to any cases upon which tax has already been settled - merely that it can be applied alongside the accelerated payment demands for tax

[MrO666]

I don't think there's any suggestion that NIC's could be applied to any cases upon which tax has already been settled - merely that it can be applied alongside the accelerated payment demands for tax

Maybe it's a further tactic by HMRC to get people to stump up before the APN's etc, and to avoid potentially more ?