HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[varunksingh]

100% in agreement with MrO666

[Safe]

>avoid National Insurance, penalties, Follower and Accelerated Payment Notices.

....NICs do not, at present, apply.
Future legislation relating to NICs will be unlikely to impact our existing cases. If they do - they could be applied retrospectively to even settled cases.

>avoid National Insurance, penalties, Follower and Accelerated Payment Notices.
how does one avoid them? I spoke to HMRC last week who stated that, if APNs are paid within the 90 days, then penalties will not apply. Have I/they missed something?

>avoid National Insurance, penalties, Follower and Accelerated Payment Notices.
If you pay now, then you won't get the FN or APN. But you won't save any money either.

Can you give an example, with numbers, of what the implications are?
For example if HMRC estimate I owe £30,000 from 2009-2010 what are the implications of NOT negotiating now?

You said, you've spoken to HMRC regarding to the penalty. How sure are you about this?
Also which NI are we talking here? Employee or employer NI? We all know Sanzar is not around anymore (well i should re-phrase it. they are around but just name changed!!). Do you think it is a possibility for us to pay the employer NI as well? I have used this type of scheme for over 6 years and my liability is more than 500K!! I have some money saved for it but it only covers tax and interest not NI and penalty.
I went to see my MP/ MSP as I’m living in North Scotland and he wasn't useful at all. Actually he didn't have a clue which is shocking!!!!

Thanks for your advice guys and girls.

[dezze]

The standard letter from MPs mentions that HMRC already have examples where they hold the potential tax in dispute. Does anyone know details of these? I (in my very limited experience of these areas) haven't heard of it - I wondered if it is widespread or used in a very small number of circumstances.

Sorry if it's already been discussed...

[jbryce]

You said, you've spoken to HMRC regarding to the penalty. How sure are you about this?
Also which NI are we talking here? Employee or employer NI? We all know Sanzar is not around anymore (well i should re-phrase it. they are around but just name changed!!). Do you think it is a possibility for us to pay the employer NI as well? I have used this type of scheme for over 6 years and my liability is more than 500K!! I have some money saved for it but it only covers tax and interest not NI and penalty.
I went to see my MP/ MSP as I’m living in North Scotland and he wasn't useful at all. Actually he didn't have a clue which is shocking!!!!

Thanks for your advice guys and girls.

NIC's are the responsibility of the employer as described to me, and my accountant, by HMRC. You owe the tax. They want the tax.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The standard letter from MPs mentions that HMRC already have examples where they hold the potential tax in dispute. Does anyone know details of these? I (in my very limited experience of these areas) haven't heard of it - I wondered if it is widespread or used in a very small number of circumstances.

Sorry if it's already been discussed...

I think VAT has always been pay now, argue later.

With direct taxes, when you appeal an assessment, or closure notice, HMRC normally always agree to suspend payment. If they refuse then the taxpayer can appeal to the FTT. There may be exceptional circumstances where the FTT sides with HMRC eg. if the taxpayer is a flight risk.

The only other situation I know of where HMRC may hold the tax in dispute is where the taxpayer believes they have overpaid and are trying to claim a refund.

[Safe]

Settle?

NIC's are the responsibility of the employer as described to me, and my accountant, by HMRC. You owe the tax. They want the tax.

It is so quiet here. Any update from Contractor helpdesk and if we need to settle as the legislation went through without changes?

[TonyTucker]

I think we've been hung out to dry by CH. I've tried to get info out of them on a number of occasions, only to be fobbed off.

You'd think they would have at least some comments to make even if it's what we all know / fear and we're going to have to pay up soon.

[jbryce]

doooomed

I think we've been hung out to dry by CH. I've tried to get info out of them on a number of occasions, only to be fobbed off.

You'd think they would have at least some comments to make even if it's what we all know / fear and we're going to have to pay up soon.

I guess it depends if Sanzar is on the list of DOTAS schemes to be impacted by the legislation in which case we get APNs. There's no reason to assume it won't be unless, for some reason, HMRC don't think it's winnable (they win 80% of cases they take to the court lose 20% and there's a pile they don't think is winnable).
As for FNs, again, depends on HMRCs appetite for court. It's worth noting that HMRC haven't, yet, actually taken a contractor EBT scheme to an FTT. Boyle doesn't really apply (and neither will the Rangers case).

Actually scrub that. They'll probably issue APNs and FNs as, they know, people will fold and people will go bankrupt. By the time it does come to court, even if they lose, they will be paying back a small number of individuals.

As for CH - who knows ..... I think they're buying time, but I also think they're acting in good faith in conjunction with CM who are talking to HMRC.......

[DotasScandal]

Actually scrub that. They'll probably issue APNs and FNs, as they know people will fold and people will go bankrupt. By the time it does come to court, even if they lose, they will be paying back a small number of individuals.

Thanks for highlighting again this KEY point of the whole strategy.

[convict]

Follower notices won't apply until a relevant judicial ruling exists. We've not had one for ebts and contractor schemes yet. APNs on the back of DOTAS is more likely.