HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

[cojak]

Many thanks for your advice DR

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Many thanks for your advice DR

No problem. I'll bump the post later, so no-one misses it.

I'm not an expert but (unfortunately) I do have the benefit of many years experience dealing with HMRC.

[davetza]

I've been giving some thought as to what I would do if I was in your position.

In order of preference:

1. If the scheme promoter is still around, and committed to defending the scheme at no cost to you, then I would stick with them. This seems like a no brainer to me.
2. If the promoter is charging clients to defend them, this is less clear cut. I would want an idea of how much it could cost. If it was reasonable then I'd still stick with them, even though I think it's an imposition having to pay when you've already forked out hefty fees to use the scheme.
3. If the promoter is referring people to a 3rd party like Tax Talk UK, then I'd probably go with this if the costs were reasonable.
4. Failing all of the above, I would probably go with Michael J Perry. He's taken the initiative and has already got some momentum going. The more people who join him the more the costs of any litigation can be pooled. This is what it's all about - strength/safety in numbers and having a decent fighting £fund.

DR

Sounds like good advice. However there are other companies available for the last option such as Gilbert Tax who have been representing some people who have been using the TRM scheme for a couple of years already. I would also really recommend doing some due diligence on whoever you choose to represent you. I would be asking stuff like

• Why are they a good choice for your particular situation
• Have they done this before and what was the outcome
• If you engage them what are the long term costs of using them depending on how the situation plays out

[cojak]

Thanks Guys,

I've added your comments to the 1st post of the thread.

[Michael J Perry FCA]

Thank you

Sounds like good advice. However there are other companies available for the last option such as Gilbert Tax who have been representing some people who have been using the TRM scheme for a couple of years already. I would also really recommend doing some due diligence on whoever you choose to represent you. I would be asking stuff like

• Why are they a good choice for your particular situation
• Have they done this before and what was the outcome
• If you engage them what are the long term costs of using them depending on how the situation plays out

Those are the right questions to ask!

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Sounds like good advice. However there are other companies available for the last option such as Gilbert Tax who have been representing some people who have been using the TRM scheme for a couple of years already. I would also really recommend doing some due diligence on whoever you choose to represent you. I would be asking stuff like

• Why are they a good choice for your particular situation
• Have they done this before and what was the outcome
• If you engage them what are the long term costs of using them depending on how the situation plays out

The biggest cost by far will be if it goes to court and you need to use tax counsel (barristers). They are astronomically expensive.

Even if you win at a first-tier tribunal, HMRC will almost certainly appeal to the upper tribunal. It could even go on to the High Court, Court of Appeal, and right up to the Supreme Court.

If it was me, I would rather be with a so-so firm representing 1000 people than a fantastic firm representing 10 people.

The size of the fighting fund is crucial when you are taking on the likes of HMRC.

[Andy123]

I've been giving some thought as to what I would do if I was in your position.

In order of preference:

1. If the scheme promoter is still around, and committed to defending the scheme at no cost to you, then I would stick with them. This seems like a no brainer to me.
2. If the promoter is charging clients to defend them, this is less clear cut. I would want an idea of how much it could cost. If it was reasonable then I'd still stick with them, even though I think it's an imposition having to pay when you've already forked out hefty fees to use the scheme.
3. If the promoter is referring people to a 3rd party like Tax Talk UK, then I'd probably go with this if the costs were reasonable.
4. Failing all of the above, I would probably go with Michael J Perry. He's taken the initiative and has already got some momentum going. The more people who join him the more the costs of any litigation can be pooled. This is what it's all about - strength/safety in numbers and having a decent fighting £fund.

I would also keep this thread going and urge you to stay in contact with each other.

I hope you never have to go as far as we have in the BN66 camp but you never know what stunts HMRC may pull further down the line.

I wish you all the best.

DR

RE: Point 3). TaxTalk advised that there is little benefit in signing up their services at this time and provided a free appeal template instead. This is the same template that has been posted on this forum before.

[sal626]

I'm not an expert but (unfortunately) I do have the benefit of many years experience dealing with HMRC.

In my book that makes you an expert

[DonkeyRhubarb]

RE: Point 3). TaxTalk advised that there is little benefit in signing up their services at this time and provided a free appeal template instead. This is the same template that has been posted on this forum before.

Makes sense. HMRC will have many thousands of appeals to process and it may be a while before you even receive confirmation that your appeal has been accepted. It could be a long time after that before you need to do anything else.

Here is something to watch out for which a number of BN66ers encountered.

HMRC are not a very joined up organisation. The debt enforcement mob have a habit of jumping the gun and trying to collect even though appeals, and requests for postponement, have been lodged. Some of our folks had officials turn up on their doorstep out of the blue citing distraint, which they are legally allowed to do without a court order.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/factsheets/ef1.pdf

If this happens to you then get on to your promoter, or call HMRC yourself, and ask them to call the dogs off.

[Andy123]

Thanks bluerover & DonkeyRhubarb. Do you think that it is Raingold's best interest to help us? Or should we get some advice from PCG?

For the avoidance of doubt. The PCG insurance with AbbeyTax does not cover this type of tax planning/avoidance. I have already tried that route as a PCG member.