S684 Letters from HMRC

[HelenF]

Quite a few contractors will be receiving letters from HMRC mentioning S684 and their (alleged) powers to transfer liability as they see fit. This is a different situation than normal but nevertheless a situation that is causing understandable concern.
They ongoing Hoey case is challenging this discretion which is no doubt why HMRC are getting the letters out now before its heard.
The discretion they claim is based on their own internal manual only. Effectively they are stating that 'we can do this because we say we can here in a secretive manual'.

Options are:

1/Ignore for now as the letters i have seen are more informational rather than an actual demand for payment. Therefore wait until more serious and hope for the best.
2/Nip it in the bud and reply presenting your arguments.

Either option is reasonable and comes down to individuals own risk factor. Any tax firm (myself included) should be able to reply for you for minimal cost. Feel free to reach out if required though as i state, any firm should be able to make this go away until the courts in Hoey have decided on the matter so if you have representation do use them. Try not to worry too much and remember that to give in now, just before the case iin Hoey is heard, is exactly what HMRC hope for. If they were confident then they wouldnt need to undertake this latest onslaught of brown envelopes.

[cojak]

I have allowed this through. The poster has offered advice without pushing their company. A textbook post.

Other companies please note...

[Jumper]

What is this transfer of liability actually for and what powers do HMRC have?

I assume the transfer would be for the personal tax due but is it any broader than this? Could it be extended to Employers NICs of the scheme? Is the transfer of liability only possible where the company is dissolved/ceased trading or can it occur whilst still operating?

[DealorNoDeal]

Quite a few contractors will be receiving letters from HMRC mentioning S684 and their (alleged) powers to transfer liability as they see fit. This is a different situation than normal but nevertheless a situation that is causing understandable concern.
They ongoing Hoey case is challenging this discretion which is no doubt why HMRC are getting the letters out now before its heard.
The discretion they claim is based on their own internal manual only. Effectively they are stating that 'we can do this because we say we can here in a secretive manual'.

S684 is enacted legislation (law). So, are you saying that it's HMRC's interpretation of it that's questionable?

[eek]

Worth saying this is old news and related to https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...te-paye-2.html

I’m mentioning this as supposedly 12,000 discovery letters are due this week for people who didn’t pay the loan charge back in April 2019 - as April 2023 is the last date HMRC can initiate stuff

[HelenF]

S684 is enacted legislation (law). So, are you saying that it's HMRC's interpretation of it that's questionable?

Good question, and Yes, its HMRC self provided discretion on how (and especially where) it can and should be applied that's under question. The legislation as it stands reads wooly and seems dated to ourselves.

[HelenF]

Worth saying this is old news and related to https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...te-paye-2.html

I’m mentioning this as supposedly 12,000 discovery letters are due this week for people who didn’t pay the loan charge back in April 2019 - as April 2023 is the last date HMRC can initiate stuff

Thank you, and apologies as i didn't notice the other post. Initial thoughts are that HMRC would be very hard pressed to claim discovery but we all know they will try. At least with discovery an automatic appeal period opens therefore taking it beyond Hoey anyway which would help clarify matters.

[eek]

Worth saying that WTT are providing slightly different advice

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/graha...ium=member_ios

boils down to it’s not as easy as just sending a letter

[HelenF]

Worth saying that WTT are providing slightly different advice

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/graha...ium=member_ios

boils down to it’s not as easy as just sending a letter

We are not claiming it is easy but i'd respectfully disagree with them at the moment that there is need for immediate expensive legal action. Especially as we have all seen how that approach has gone recently. That being said, clearly each to their own and if WTT succeed in any legal case they take forward we applaud them for it. It just seems a little premature to us considering the legal action in Hoey specifically tries to get to the bottom of this HMRC discretion point.
To confirm - We have no wish to get into a "we are right/they are wrong" discussion with any other firm and therefore repeat we wish all challenges the best of luck.

[HelenF]

Mr Gordon (barrister) just raised a good point on twitter. Discovery assessments are supposed to be a last resort when the information was not available at the time of the enquiry window. In LC cases that clearly isn't the case. It is worth remembering therefore that Discovery assessments are appealable and the FTT do hear these cases. As always with HMRC unfortunately, a complete shambolic mess. Nevertheless, whichever route anyone takes, please try not to panic and seek support from wherever you feel suitable.