Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[DealorNoDeal]

it really wouldn’t surprise me if HMRC’s current definition of an MSC is a custom portal providing instructions on what to do - and that the difference becomes something as stupid as a value being auto populated rather than entered manually.

Or whatever casts the net as wide as possible.

I presume the majority of CK contractors will be operating outside IR35?

Any other accounting firms with large numbers of outside-IR35 contractors should be on their guard.

[eek]

Or whatever casts the net as wide as possible.

I presume the majority of CK contractors will be operating outside IR35?

Any other accounting firms with

• a self built portal / spreadsheet,
• a large numbers of outside-IR35 contractors
• who also run an umbrella from the same portal / codebase

should be on their guard.

FTFY to be clearer of my thoughts and the reality.

Given that Boox is impacted, I wonder what is happening to Crunch.

[Chevalier]

For those that are interested, there’s a rather informative article here.

https://www.osborneclarke.com/insigh...sc-enforcement

[ChurchillKnight]

To confirm the portal used for our limited company clients and those employed by Churchill Knight Umbrella are completely separate. Churchill Knight Umbrella has always been ran on third party umbrella specialist software.

At this stage we are unable to comment on any specific posts on forums, however we would like to reiterate that we are working with industry experts and a specialist law firm. We strongly deny any accusations that we are an MSCP and believe that our technical response which was issued to HMRC shows this to be a misunderstanding from them with regards to the legislation and how an accountancy portal works.

As a reminder, if you are a client of Churchill Knight and haven’t registered or produced an appeal letter, then please speak with your account manager who can assist you.

[DealorNoDeal]

For those that are interested, there’s a rather informative article here.

https://www.osborneclarke.com/insigh...sc-enforcement

"In practice, any accountancy practice which actively markets to contractors will be at risk."

[DealorNoDeal]

If I wasn't in it it would be unbelievable!

How on earth can accountancy firm find clients and visa-versa if they don't market their wares??

Hell on earth approaches, actually it's already here.

I imagine HMRC have been searching for a way to target outside-IR35 contractors en masse for a long time. The old approach of going after individuals just isn't practical, and they've never won anywhere enough cases to act as a deterrent. Now the Court of Appeal has handed them the key.

I have no doubt they will take this too far, stretching the bounds of what constitutes an MSC, and a lot of innocent folk will get caught up in it.

[malvolio]

Just going back to the portal for a minute, I assume it takes no notice of retained profits, so if it takes an invoice and labels a portion of it "Dividends available" that might meet eek's criterion for being proscriptive?

[SueEllen]

I imagine HMRC have been searching for a way to target outside-IR35 contractors en masse for a long time. The old approach of going after individuals just isn't practical, and they've never won anywhere enough cases to act as a deterrent. Now the Court of Appeal has handed them the key.

I have no doubt they will take this too far, stretching the bounds of what constitutes an MSC, and a lot of innocent folk will get caught up in it.

They will take it too far so end up starting a fight with an accountant who has proof that they have never advised their clients en masse things like what yearly salary to take and what dividends to take.

[DealorNoDeal]

They will take it too far so end up starting a fight with an accountant who has proof that they have never advised their clients en masse things like what yearly salary to take and what dividends to take.

The trouble is, legal disputes with HMRC can go on for many years, a decade even, because of the time it takes to progress through the tribunal and court process. All the while, those contractors caught up in it have to live with seemingly never ending uncertainty and worry.

All of which suits HMRC of course.

[eek]

The trouble is, legal disputes with HMRC can go on for many years, a decade even, because of the time it takes to progress through the tribunal and court process. All the while, those contractors caught up in it have to live with seemingly never ending uncertainty and worry.

All of which suits HMRC of course.

It's awful for anyone involved but even a complete "fishing" expedition for HMRC results in a fair amount of money being paid as the stress otherwise is just too great