Originally posted by Chevalier
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Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies
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Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market. -
Originally posted by Chevalier View PostAccording to CK’s site HMRC have taken the view that clients cannot operate independently from the portal! - Make of that what you will, but If that’s their view then many more products could be labelled as MSCPs.
Even if that’s true, it doesn’t follow that every client is “managed”. The court of appeal judgement in the Costelloe case explores (that often used phrase) the intention of parliament.
My suspicion is that this will eventually evolve into something like the TV presenters / IR35 cases - with each case being decided on its merits.
As an aside, I would be careful what you share from "CK's site" - although I am sure we're all very interested to learn about it- remember, this is a public forum.
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I wouldn't have thought HMRC could use Follower Notices in this situation, unless they're somehow able to construe that it's a tax avoidance arrangement. But you can never be sure with these buggers. They have form for using legislation "creatively".Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostI wouldn't have thought HMRC could use Follower Notices in this situation, unless they're somehow able to construe that it's a tax avoidance arrangement. But you can never be sure with these buggers. They have form for using legislation "creatively".merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by eek View Post
I think it's built into the MSC provider legislation. ...
* at the end of all appealsScoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
One of the appealing things about the MSC legislation is that a connection between an MSCP and one of its "products" or "solutions" used by an MSC implies that all MSCs using the same product or solution would be caught.
If there’s a single aspect of the portal that applies to 100% of the client base, all behaved the same way then yes. That was indeed the point of Costelloe where the bank accounts were clearly being managed!
On the other hand if it’s something like patterns of dividend distribution it’s a totally different animal.
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Originally posted by Chevalier View Post
I’m not sure that I fully agree with the view that all are caught. The legislation requires influence or control in one of the areas mentioned.
If there’s a single aspect of the portal that applies to 100% of the client base, all behaved the same way then yes. That was indeed the point of Costelloe where the bank accounts were clearly being managed!
On the other hand if it’s something like patterns of dividend distribution it’s a totally different animal.
CBS did a whole pile of things wrong so you can't just say CK are innocent because they haven't done these 5 items CBS were found guilty of. CK only need to have screwed one item up to be caught.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Does anyone know how HMRC calculate what they believe the business owes in PAYE and NIC? I ask because surely there will need to be re-calculations based on corp tax paid and personal tax on dividends taken for the tax year. If they assume all money in is what would be paid out then you would be looking at a 0 profit business and they could end up having to rebate a lot in corp tax...Comment
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Originally posted by SoConfused View PostDoes anyone know how HMRC calculate what they believe the business owes in PAYE and NIC? I ask because surely there will need to be re-calculations based on corp tax paid and personal tax on dividends taken for the tax year. If they assume all money in is what would be paid out then you would be looking at a 0 profit business and they could end up having to rebate a lot in corp tax...Comment
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