I don't know anything really about CK. Were they one of the composite company operators like Brookson were? And became accountants overnight when the MSC legislation came in?
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Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies
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Public Service Posting by the BBC - Bloggs Bulls**t Corp.
Officially CUK certified - Thick as f**k. -
Originally posted by GregRickshaw
Not sure Fred, I believe they were accountants first and foremost, their umbrella offering came later (AFAIK).
Then the MSC legislation came in and MSC operators became accountants overnight.Public Service Posting by the BBC - Bloggs Bulls**t Corp.
Officially CUK certified - Thick as f**k.Comment
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Originally posted by Fred Bloggs View Post
Thanks. CK is not a company I recall knowing anything about. Other than at one time I looked at their website and saw they were ridiculously expensive for what they offered. I was just wondering if they had been on Hector's radar since composite company days. I know quite a few companies operating as what became MSCs were under close observation at the time. Some companies publicly boasted about their fighting funds if Hector came calling.
Then the MSC legislation came in and MSC operators became accountants overnight.
It's very much a case of "doth protest too much, methinks"
And I suspect it will all boil down to very historic commissions paid to agencies from the MSC companies.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by eek View Post
A quick google search found this old PDF 2. Recruiters Short Guide to Managed Service Company (MSC) Legislation and Transfer of Debt 2007 20170313 RB5 (churchill-knight.co.uk)
It's very much a case of "doth protest too much, methinks"
And I suspect it will all boil down to very historic commissions paid to agencies from the MSC companies.Public Service Posting by the BBC - Bloggs Bulls**t Corp.
Officially CUK certified - Thick as f**k.Comment
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Originally posted by GregRickshawLooking through the PDF it seems CK were not MSC during the period Hector is now querying which makes this whole thing seem even stranger.
Possibly earlier circa 2005? They do seem to have changed their model to fit with legislation in 2006, so again confusing as to why Hector thinks the year they are investigating is relevant.
The whole thing clearly has something more to it than meets (well my uneducated) the eye.
merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by GregRickshawLooking through the PDF it seems CK were not MSC during the period Hector is now querying which makes this whole thing seem even stranger.
Possibly earlier circa 2005? They do seem to have changed their model to fit with legislation in 2006, so again confusing as to why Hector thinks the year they are investigating is relevant.
The whole thing clearly has something more to it than meets (well my uneducated) the eye.
I can remember several of the very prominent players in the composite company provider space. I don't recall any of them being called CK. Not that it means anything, I'm nobody.
It will however, be rather interesting to see what first triggered the investigation. It was quite common for accountants to be actively hand holding contractor Ltd Co's back then. After the MSC legislation, they had to be seen to be far more at arms length.
I watch with interest.Public Service Posting by the BBC - Bloggs Bulls**t Corp.
Officially CUK certified - Thick as f**k.Comment
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An MSC that was pitched to me back in the early noughties involved all the contractors being employees of a composite company which paid them salary & dividends, thereby somehow circumventing IR35.
I take it that what HMRC are accusing CK of is something different, since it sounds like all the contractors have their own individual Ltds?
Are HMRC using the MSC angle to avoid having to carry out individual IR35 investigations?Last edited by DealorNoDeal; 18 March 2022, 14:19.Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostAn MSC that was pitched to me back in the early noughties involved all the contractors being employees of a composite company which paid them salary & dividends, thereby circumventing IR35.
I take it that what HMRC are accusing CK of is something different, since it sounds like all the contractors have their own individual Ltds?Public Service Posting by the BBC - Bloggs Bulls**t Corp.
Officially CUK certified - Thick as f**k.Comment
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostAn MSC that was pitched to me back in the early noughties involved all the contractors being employees of a composite company which paid them salary & dividends, thereby somehow circumventing IR35.
I take it that what HMRC are accusing CK of is something different, since it sounds like all the contractors have their own individual Ltds?
Are HMRC using the MSC angle to avoid having to carry out individual IR35 investigations?
Later on composite companies were banned it moved to an MSC approach where the contractor was the director of the company but the accountant did all the work..
Then eventually even MSC got banned...
But the MSC angle opens up a more interesting point than IR35 - remember the PDF I posted early the tax and penalties for being an MSC can be passed to the accountant and / or the agency....Last edited by eek; 18 March 2022, 15:05.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by GregRickshaw...Hector clearly smells blood here...
The trouble is, even if they've got a really flimsy case, they might still let it go to tribunal. It wouldn't be the first time they've done that either.
Hopefully CK go the distance, and don't leave clients high and dry like many firms have in the past.Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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