Things about to get very serious and much more real? / Felicitas Letters

[Lonerous]

I believe that they would need to make every effort to ensure that you have been contacted and provide evidence of that. So potentially sending the SD to multiple addresses etc, I'm not sure.

One thing to add.......

The costs to petition someone for bankruptcy total £1270. Felicitas will need to pay this up front for each and every person they wanted to try and bankrupt.

Also, my guess is that the reason they asked for money to be paid into the account of a different business (highly suspicious anyway), was that even if costs are awarded against them, they are a shell company and don't have any assets, any money is in their friends account. I would expect this to be taken into account should this end up in court, as the courts will be able to see that the likelihood of them paying costs etc are more or less zero, so would probably require them to pay costs on account.

I have no idea how many people Felicitas are chasing, but to petition bankruptcy for just 100 of them will cost Felicitas £127k................do they want to pay that.......that's the question.

Could they send 1 or 2 SDs initially and see what the ruling is? If both are deemed set aside (assuming the contracts and situation of the defendants are identical) due to an ongoing dispute, would this set a precedent?

[eek]

@lonerous - May I suggest you do some reading before posting your random thoughts.

[Lonerous]

@lonerous - May I suggest you do some reading before posting your random thoughts.

They are genuine questions from a concerned lay person caught up in this mess. I have not presented anything as a fact or otherwise.

I've spent a good deal of time reading up on statutory demands and couldn't find the answers I was looking for. Hence I posed questions on here in case someone knew the answers. I honestly don't see why that is an issue (but am more than happy to be advised if you feel it is).

[Shay58]

They are genuine questions from a concerned lay person caught up in this mess. I have not presented anything as a fact or otherwise.

I've spent a good deal of time reading up on statutory demands and couldn't find the answers I was looking for. Hence I posed questions on here in case someone knew the answers. I honestly don't see why that is an issue (but am more than happy to be advised if you feel it is).

But isn't this a forum?

[eek]

They are genuine questions from a concerned lay person caught up in this mess. I have not presented anything as a fact or otherwise.

I've spent a good deal of time reading up on statutory demands and couldn't find the answers I was looking for. Hence I posed questions on here in case someone knew the answers. I honestly don't see why that is an issue (but am more than happy to be advised if you feel it is).

But the questions are easy to answer.

Every SD is individual - no precedent is set if 1 succeeds and another fails.

And the judge doesn't need experience to set an SD aside, you just to object in a way that the SD is set aside (i.e. I don't recognise this debt, I don't recognise the owner of this debt, the owner of this debt isn't from England are 3 I think might be valid).

As for my previous post - anyone who has spent 30 seconds studying law would know that a junior court doesn't set any precedent and that judges will work with the guidebook they need to follow (which in this case is the list of reasons why an SD may be invalid).



Also this is not a time to be messing around with if buts and maybes. Statutory Demands have fixed (and very short) timescales - if you have received one you have less than 2 weeks to deal with it and hiding away without responding will result in whoever is issuing the demand winning.

While I don't think they are a suitable way of dealing with any bad debt I can see why Felicitas are using them as they will trigger responses from people (and without a response it's an automatic win for them).

[MrO666]

The key thing that needs to happen if you receive a SD, is just to be able to prove that there's a genuine dispute over the alleged debt.

This could take the form of:

1) Disputed numbers

2) Disputed paperwork

3) Dispute for any other reason.

The key thing is just being able to fully claim that there is a dispute, and be able to state why. Providing you can do that, then a judge should throw it out. It's worth noting though, that if the judge does throw it out, at that point your solicitor can also apply for costs against the claimant.

Remember a SD can never legally be used to try and pursue payment of a disputed debt. SD's should only be used to try and enforce payment of an accepted debt.

[eek]

The key thing that needs to happen if you receive a SD, is just to be able to prove that there's a genuine dispute over the alleged debt.

This could take the form of:

1) Disputed numbers

2) Disputed paperwork

3) Dispute for any other reason.

The key thing is just being able to fully claim that there is a dispute, and be able to state why. Providing you can do that, then a judge should throw it out. It's worth noting though, that if the judge does throw it out, at that point your solicitor can also apply for costs against the claimant.

Remember a SD can never legally be used to try and pursue payment of a disputed debt. SD's should only be used to try and enforce payment of an accepted debt.

The bit in bold is the important bit here - but don't dispute the numbers you need to be disputing the whole debt as disputing just part of it will allow them to claim the amount remains over £5000 and keep the SD in place. So dispute the paperwork, dispute ownership of the loan, dispute the fact its a loan at all, dispute the fact it's got anything to do with the UK. But don't argue over figures that might not work.

Fact Sheet - Statutory demands | Set aside a statutory demand | National Debtline has another overview for those hunting for details - but find a lawyer and send your dispute notice in.

[Shay58]

The bit in bold is the important bit here - but don't dispute the numbers you need to be disputing the whole debt as disputing just part of it will allow them to claim the amount remains over £5000 and keep the SD in place. So dispute the paperwork, dispute ownership of the loan, dispute the fact its a loan at all, dispute the fact it's got anything to do with the UK. But don't argue over figures that might not work.

Fact Sheet - Statutory demands | Set aside a statutory demand | National Debtline has another overview for those hunting for details - but find a lawyer and send your dispute notice in.

Here is the response I received from Isle of Man FSA: IOMFSA
hank you for your e-mail regarding Felicitas Solutions Limited (“Felicitas”) which is registered with the Isle of Man Financial Services Authority (“the Authority”) to provide moneylending services as defined in the Designated Businesses (Registration and Oversight) Act 2015 (of Tynwald) (“the Act”).

The Act requires those carrying on certain “designated business activities”, which activities have been deemed as subject to the Island’s AMLCFT Code 2019 (“the Code”) (the general equivalent of England’s AMLCFT Regulations), to register with the Authority for the purposes of oversight of their compliance with the Code. A reference copy of the Code is available here: https://www.iomfsa.im/media/1520/appendixa.pdf

The Code imposes a statutory obligation on those subject to its provisions to comply with its provisions. That obligation is restricted to those carrying on business activities which are subject to the Code, in this case Felicitas.

The Code imposes, inter alia, a statutory obligation on businesses subject to the Code to obtain certain “Customer Due Diligence” and ”Know Your Customer” information from their Customers (or potential Customers) before it may enter into a business relationship with them. Part 4 of the Code deals with a relevant business’ obligations in respect of customer due diligence and know your customer requirements.

The customers of a business which is subject to the Code are under no statutory obligation to provide the business with the information required. A failure by a customer or prospective customer may, however, prevent the business from carrying on business with or entering into a business arrangement with that customer. Clearly that can be an incentive to provide the information where a customer has a desire to enter into a business relationship with the relevant business.

All money lenders are also required to be registered with the Isle of Man Office of Fair Trading (“OFT”). The OFT also perform the role of Ombudsman for money lenders, so complaints against registered money lenders should be made to the OFT by telephone on 01624 686500 or email at [email protected].

[eek]

Are the IoM's "Know Your Customer" requirements relevant to a Statutory Demand issued in the UK?

[Shay58]

Here is the response I received from Isle of Man FSA: IOMFSA
hank you for your e-mail regarding Felicitas Solutions Limited (“Felicitas”) which is registered with the Isle of Man Financial Services Authority (“the Authority”) to provide moneylending services as defined in the Designated Businesses (Registration and Oversight) Act 2015 (of Tynwald) (“the Act”).

The Act requires those carrying on certain “designated business activities”, which activities have been deemed as subject to the Island’s AMLCFT Code 2019 (“the Code”) (the general equivalent of England’s AMLCFT Regulations), to register with the Authority for the purposes of oversight of their compliance with the Code. A reference copy of the Code is available here: https://www.iomfsa.im/media/1520/appendixa.pdf

The Code imposes a statutory obligation on those subject to its provisions to comply with its provisions. That obligation is restricted to those carrying on business activities which are subject to the Code, in this case Felicitas.

The Code imposes, inter alia, a statutory obligation on businesses subject to the Code to obtain certain “Customer Due Diligence” and ”Know Your Customer” information from their Customers (or potential Customers) before it may enter into a business relationship with them. Part 4 of the Code deals with a relevant business’ obligations in respect of customer due diligence and know your customer requirements.

The customers of a business which is subject to the Code are under no statutory obligation to provide the business with the information required. A failure by a customer or prospective customer may, however, prevent the business from carrying on business with or entering into a business arrangement with that customer. Clearly that can be an incentive to provide the information where a customer has a desire to enter into a business relationship with the relevant business.

All money lenders are also required to be registered with the Isle of Man Office of Fair Trading (“OFT”). The OFT also perform the role of Ombudsman for money lenders, so complaints against registered money lenders should be made to the OFT by telephone on 01624 686500 or email at [email protected].

I will call OFT and speak with them about Felicitas Solutions Limited