IQ Consultants, Felicitas Solutions, ECS Trustees - loan repayment demands

[eek]

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At the end of the day we aren't going to agree.

I think these are business transaction outside of FCA's remit that Felicitas are correctly treating as a business transactions, that Felicitas have proof that you received large sums of money (untaxed) and won't need much effort to prove that these are loans that need to be repaid.

You believe the statement above is false in some way and therefore believe you have nothing to worry about.

Personally I think you are 100% wrong which is why I'm posting here to contradict your views so that people see both viewpoints and aren't sucked into your fantasy land.

[eek]

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I'm at a loss as to how you can in the same sentence accept you received loans (a debt) yet dispute said debt.

And you seem to think Felicitas need to prove to you that the loan is valid - yet they are posting items on a portal that you refuse to look at and in reality don't actually need to prove anything until the day you are both sat in court.

Finally you seem to believe that a court is going to expect a lot of evidence regarding the loan and I don't, a number of large payments with no paperwork is likely more than enough..

[eek]

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Nope you are paying etc and wtt because there was and is a risk that any settlement of these loans may impact your tax position - and because of the sheer number of intersections potentially involved few other people have any chance of understanding the complete picture (it's far easier to learn the loan side of things than the tax side)...

[eek]

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Tell me where I expect a court to do anything other than be a court of law. Seems you are now the one expecting and assuming, unless of course you work for a solicitor, maybe even a solicitor and you are familiar with what a court needs and what it doesn't require.

This is just what the scum want by the way, us falling out amongst each other.[/QUOTE]

I love your paranoia when all I needed to do is check back at your previous posts where you boosted about avoiding visiting the portal and told others not to visit it.

And given the sheer amount of money you owe (roughly £280,000, I believe again based on information you've posted on this thread) I can see why you are clutching at straws and hoping this battle will continue outside court.

Finally I really doubt the right to chase up the loans is the great argument you think it is. Go back and look at the Webberg's first post on this thread and tell me how plausible it really is that a firm of accountants who used to run trusts won't have organised proper paperwork when passing the management of said trust(s) to a different specialist firm in the IoM

[eek]

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What am I clutching at again? The original suggesting of going to WTT and ETC was because so many things interact here - there was the loan charge scheme and there still is the risk of IHT and you don't want to settle a loan for 5% or even 12% and then discover that due to the form and structure of that write off HMRC can now generate a 40% IHT tax bill on the other 95/88%.

[cojak]

I am putting a temporary lock on this thread, to give everyone a chance to calm down.

I will release it this time tomorrow.

[happychap]

Focus

Hello All,

Been rather heated on hear lately and I do understand all these points however it's not all doom and gloom.

Personally i've been caught up in this for 5yrs. Between 2008-2013 with two scheme providers from the IOM.

But i break this up into two areas.

1. Tax - based on the Scheme - avoiding tax.
2. So-called Loan - as a way of avoiding tax.

Point 1. I have dealt with, like many others I have by paid what was due to HMRC. After all, it was a grey area, morally wrong but hey we all try to stick to the guidelines and play them to suit ourselves.

Point 2., however, is much more worrying. We all know we worked as an employee for the scheme/trust holders and in return, we were given (So-called Loans) avoiding tax. So there is loan paperwork, there are contracts and most likely some of us electronically signed for these. You may however also have paperwork saying the loan will NEVER be paid back as it's just the mechanism of the scheme.

However, these are (if they are real loans) unsecured loans. Given by an employer to an employee as per the contract and stated in the contract. This is really not ideal for the employer (Trust) and in fact employers hate having this as once the employee leaves it's difficult to chase. It's also expensive as the employer (Trust) would have to take every individual to court and prove that these are loans and that we owe them the money.

Now, judges and courts are not idiots they don't have their heads in the sand and they see what goes on.

My plan is to wait until Felicitas take me to court, I ain't giving them a penny until I have my day.

My hope

1. the judge will he see through this as a scam, the employee gives employer money then it's given back as loan. (a mechanism to avoid tax essentially - knowing that the employee has now PAID TAX to HMRC in full).

2. the trust paperwork was it legit under IOM FCA rules for giving so-called loans?

3. are the loans extinguished (I've mentioned this before living in Scotland all debts/loans if not chased / payments made / contact made or any communications after 5yrs extinguishes the debt - in the rest of the UK it's 6yrs.
My last so-called loan Jan 2013 first interaction March 2020.

4. unsecured loans - worst case I'm blacklisted for 6yrs oh well. I have nothing for them to take anyway.

[WoffleCopter]

Hello All,
4. unsecured loans - worst case i'm black listed for 6yrs oh well.

Are you sure this is the limit of their recourse? I thought they can get a court order forcing you to pay under a certain schedule, then send in the bailiffs if you default. Unless of course, you live in rented accommodation and have no assets then you can usually get away without repaying debts.

[piebaps]

Happychap

Some of those points are quite simple.

The IOM lending rules apply to commercial lenders and won't necessarily cover these arrangements. Its not been tested in Court yet so we don't know for sure.
Mass marketed tax avoidance is not a regulated activity in either the IOM or the wider UK so the FSA aren't necessarily involved. If however an IOM regulated business (such as a Trust & Corporate Services Provider) has breached its fiduciary duty, then the FSA may have an interest.

I think the only think we have seen for sure in this thread is that the loan agreements are under IOM law. There are no "no win no fee" lawyers in the IOM. Its not permitted. Anyone wanting to take legal proceedings will have to instruct an IOM lawyer (called an advocate) at their own expense. If they win, costs may be awarded at the discretion of the judge, and then they will have to take their judgement to a Court in another country to try and enforce collection.

The likelihood of these cowboys doing that appears to be low. However, as with everything else in this pile of tulip, nobody is certain of anything.

[shampoo]

Darwin Contract ~2011

At no point in the Darwin contract below does it mention loan/loan repayment or have any schedules/T&C's relating to loans ... The contract below is the only document I signed (Digitally) that had any commentary in the form of schedules. None of the monthly discretionary payment requests had any T&C's attached nor did I digitally sign any discretionary payment requests that had loan T&C's associated to them.
[I][I][I]

Thank you. You have now completed the acceptance process of the Contract for Services. Below is a copy of the contract of services for your records.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Contract for Services

THIS AGREEMENT dated xx/xx/2011 is made by and between

1. DARWIN CONSULTING LIMITED, in its capacity as managing partner of the Darwin Partnership whose registered office is at PO Box 95 2A Lord Street Douglas Isle of Man IM99 1HP Company Number 005057V (“the Company”); and

2. (”the Self-Employed Consultant”)

Recitals:

(a) The Self-Employed Consultant is in business on his own account as an independent Self-Employed Consultant and has the skills, background and experience to offer services which may be of use to the Company from time to time.

(b) The Self-Employed Consultant is willing to provide the Services (as detailed below) (“the Services”) in accordance with the provisions of this Contract for Services.

1. Definitions:

In this Agreement the following words shall have the following meanings:

"Client" Any person, firm, company or other organisation to whom the Company has provided services during the term of this Contract;

"Start Date" The date on which the Self-Employed Consultant is to start performing supplying the Services;

"End Date" The date on which the Self-Employed Consultant completes supplying the Services or such other date as the Parties may agree;

"the Services" As detailed in Schedule1 annexed;

"Self-Employed Consultant’s Fee(s)" As detailed in Schedule1 annexed; "Third Party" As detailed in Schedule1 annexed.

2. Interpretation

2.1 In this Agreement the following words shall have the following meanings:

2.1.1 words importing any gender include every gender;

2.1.2 words importing the singular number include the plural number and vice versa;

2.1.3 words importing persons include firms, companies and corporations and vice versa;

2.1.4 references to numbered clauses and schedules are references to the relevant clause in or schedule to this Contract; 2.1.5 reference in any schedule to this Contract to numbered paragraphs relate to the numbered paragraphs of that schedule;

2.1.6 any obligation on any Party not to do or omit to do anything is to include an obligation not to allow that thing to be done or omitted to be done;

2.1.7 the headings to the clauses, schedules and paragraphs of this Contract are not to affect the interpretation;

2.1.8 any reference to an enactment includes reference to that enactment as amended or replaced from time to time and to any subordinate legislation or byelaw made under that enactment; and

2.1.9 where the word ‘including’ is used in this Contract, it shall be understood as meaning ‘including without limitation’.

3. Services

3.1 The Self-Employed Consultant agrees to provide the Services to the Company and such other services consistent with the Services as the Company may require of the Self-Employed Consultant from time to time.

3.2 The Self-Employed Consultant agrees that he will use reasonable care and skill in performing the Services to the standard generally accepted for Services of that type within the industry or sector or profession relevant to the Services and warrants that he is qualified to perform the Services.

3.3 The Self-Employed Consultant reserves the right, subject to the prior written approval of the Company and in accordance with the provisions of this clause, to appoint a substitute to perform the Services on his behalf or to engage a sub-contractor to support the Self-Employed Consultant in the provision of the Services. The Self-Employed Consultant acknowledges that the Company has the right to refuse any substitute or sub-contractor, such right to be reasonably exercised and only if (in the reasonable view of the Company) the substitute or sub-contractor does not possess the requisite qualifications or experience to provide the Services. If the Company approves a substitute or sub-contractor within the meaning of this clause, the Self-Employed Consultant shall continue to invoice the Company in accordance with clause

3.4 The Company shall not supervise, direct or control, or have any right to supervise, direct or control as to how the Self-Employed Consultant is to perform the Services

3.5 The Self-Employed Consultant shall provide the Services in such places and locations as the Self-Employed Consultant considers appropriate to the type and nature of the requirements of the Services or as set out in Schedule 1 or as agreed between the Parties from time to time.

3.6 As a visiting independent contractor, the Self-Employed Consultant will familiarise himself with and comply with any working practices, rules or procedures applicable, at any location where the Self-Employed Consultant is performing the Services (whether or not the Company’s premises). This includes, but is not limited to, complying with all reasonable standards of safety and procedures from time to time in force at the premises where the Services are provided and to report to the Company any unsafe working conditions or practices. The Self-Employed Consultant indemnifies the Company against any liability arising in respect of any breach of his obligations under this clause by the Self-Employed Consultant and/or any substitutes or sub-contractors used by the Self-Employed Consultant.

3.7 The Company is not obliged to offer ongoing contracts or services to the Self-Employed Consultant nor is the Self-Employed Consultant obliged to accept such contracts or services if offered. The Self-Employed Consultant is not obliged to make his services available to the Company or any third party, other than in accordance with the terms of this Contract. Specifically both parties accept that they do not wish to create or imply any mutuality of obligations whatsoever, at any time, either during or between any individual Contract for Services.

4. Fees:

4.1 Within 7 days of the signing of this Contract for Services the Self-Employed Consultant will supply the Company with any VAT registration details (if applicable) together with his bank account details necessary for payment details.

4.2 The Self-Employed Consultant shall submit information to the Company in accordance with the arrangements specified in Schedule1, giving details of the hours worked and/or the Services provided and the amount payable for such services .

4.3 The fees payable by the Company to the Self-Employed Consultant for the Services are specified in Schedule1.

4.4 By signing this Agreement the Self-Employed Consultant agrees to enter into a self billing agreement with the Company (see Schedule 2 annexed). The Company will agree new terms for self billing with the Self-Employed Consultant if the Company’s VAT number changes and the Company will inform the Self-Employed Consultant if the self-billed invoices are outsourced to a third party. If it is subsequently found that the Self-Employed Consultant is not VAT registered or has failed to provide accurate and current information relating to his VAT status, then he shall immediately on demand by the Company repay to the Company any VAT paid over incorrectly (together with any associated interest and penalties incurred by the Company). The Company may recover by debiting any money due to the Company in respect of VAT and any associated interest or penalties.

4.5 Payment will be made directly to the Self-Employed Consultant by electronic transfer within four working days of the Company receiving cleared and identified funds from the Third Party.

4.6 In the event that there is an overpayment made by the Company to the Self-Employed Consultant the Self-Employed Consultant expressly authorises the Company to deduct the overpayment from the next payment due to the Self-Employed Consultant or request repayment from the Self-Employed Consultant within 14 days as appropriate.

4.7 The Company shall be entitled to deduct from the Fee (and any other sums) due to the Self-Employed Consultant any sums that the Self-Employed Consultant may owe to the Company. The Self-Employed Consultant expressly agrees to the deduction of any additional costs or expenses incurred outside the Company’s control during the aforementioned processing, including but not limited to bank charges.

4.8 All Fees are calculated exclusive of expenses unless Schedule 1 states otherwise.

4.9 All Fees and expenses (if applicable) are stated exclusive of Value Added Tax. The Self-Employed Consultant agrees that the Self-Employed Consultant is liable for all Value Added Tax in connection with this Contract and indemnifies the Company against any liability arising in respect of Value Added Tax relating to the provision of the Services under this contract.

4.10 All payments will be specified in Pounds Sterling (GBP) unless otherwise agreed in Schedule 1 and all invoices will be paid in the currency agreed in the Schedule.

5. Expenses: Prior to incurring any expenses in the provision of the Services, which he expects to be reimbursed by the Client, the Self-Employed Consultant is responsible for obtaining the necessary approval(s).