IQ Consultants, Felicitas Solutions, ECS Trustees - loan repayment demands

[DealorNoDeal]

I will use this as it's a quick demonstration Understand your Self Assessment tax bill: Payments on account - GOV.UK

Payment on Account is advanced payments before the money is due to be paid - hence it is a loan...

Maybe but if I was a "scammer" going to court to get a debt enforced, I'd fancy my chances more if the paperwork said LOAN rather than POA.

[DealorNoDeal]

Go and look at a tax case called P A Holdings.

Gives you the gist of how this iteration worked.

Just to be clear, I'm not referring to the tax angle.

I'm talking about a "lender" taking someone to court to get a debt enforced, where the paperwork says "payment on account" rather than loan.

[Superfly]

Just to be clear, I'm not referring to the tax angle.

I'm talking about a "lender" taking someone to court to get a debt enforced, where the paperwork says "payment on account" rather than loan.

Agreed DnD, I'm all settled on the tax front so I'm not disputing the tax position.

I don't believe the scammers position about it being a loan is as clear cut as what is being made out here, far too many things being inferred about it being a loan rather than being explicitly stated.

I'm told "Loan agreements are usually in written form, but there is no legal reason why a loan agreement cannot be a purely oral contract (although oral agreements are more difficult to enforce)." I fancy my chances even more when I have written documentary evidence that nothing requires repaying.

By the way, I have sought help from friends in the tax and law field, so apologies if I sound gungho, and I wouldn't encourage anyone on here to go into any of this eyes closed.

I will at some point try sharing what I have as I believe it will help others as well.

[eek]

I will at some point try sharing what I have as I believe it will help others as well.

Don't on here as this is a public forum - do it elsewhere where the argument can't be read before being seen in court.

Equally I don't think we are making out it is a loan, what we are saying is that it could be a loan

[BrilloPad]

Just to be clear, I'm not referring to the tax angle.

I'm talking about a "lender" taking someone to court to get a debt enforced, where the paperwork says "payment on account" rather than loan.

And thats going to happen with these schemes? Pig squadron alert....

[eek]

And thats going to happen with these schemes? Pig squadron alert....

We've already seen the "loans" sold to a third party and a cheap pay on success law firm asked to send letters, it actually wouldn't surprise me if the new owners decide to head to court. That news would scare a few more into paying and were they to win its open season on everyone else.

[cojak]

Maybe but if I was a "scammer" going to court to get a debt enforced, I'd fancy my chances more if the paperwork said LOAN rather than POA.

No, if you were a scammer you would be VERY careful to take care that your contract DID NOT say 'loan' while actually meaning exactly that in technical legal jargon.

That way you can dupe the punters.

Choosing a legitimate umbrella - read the contract

[DealorNoDeal]

No, if you were a scammer you would be VERY careful to take care that your contract DID NOT say 'loan' while actually meaning exactly that in technical legal jargon.

That way you can dupe the punters.

Choosing a legitimate umbrella - read the contract

I think there may be two issues being conflated here.

1) The tax issue. I totally agree with you that, irrespective of what any contract says, HMRC regard it as disguised taxable income. And a court would almost certainly concur.

2) Whether the "lender" could get a court to accept the payment was a loan and issue a debt enforcement order. Here the wording of any paperwork is much more important. No commercial loan I've ever seen refers to the money as a "payment on account".

John: do you want £100k as a payment on account?
Jim: sure

A few years later...

John: if you pay me £10k now, I'll write off that £100k I lent you
Jim: no response
John: I'll take you to court
Jim:

[eek]

I think there may be two issues being conflated here.

1) The tax issue. I totally agree with you that, irrespective of what any contract says, HMRC regard it as disguised taxable income. And a court would almost certainly concur.

2) Whether the "lender" could get a court to accept the payment was a loan and issue a debt enforcement order. Here the wording of any paperwork is much more important. No commercial loan I've ever seen refers to the money as a "payment on account".

John: do you want £100k as a payment on account?
Jim: sure

A few years later...

John: if you pay me £10k now, I'll write off that £100k I lent you
Jim: foxtrot oscar
John: I'll take you to court
Jim:

The issue you have there is that it may not be John asking for the repayment it's now someone called David who has bought the loans for peanuts in the hope of a large return. And while you might wish to laugh at John, if David's plan is to maximise his investment he may well be planning to take you to court.

[BrilloPad]

The issue you have there is that it may not be John asking for the repayment it's now someone called David who has bought the loans for peanuts in the hope of a large return. And while you might wish to laugh at John, if David's plan is to maximise his investment he may well be planning to take you to court.

No David wont. His chances of success are almost zero. And it will cost alot of money.

IMO....