Originally posted by difficulttimes
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Sympathy for the Devil
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Originally posted by starstruck View PostYou can't be serious, so now CLSO2 and settlement are ends? You've just stated above you don't consider settlement to be an end.
As I have very clearly stated, HMRC consider CLSO 2 to be an end to liability but will not give you certainty that no further charges can or will arise.
I am of the view that CLSO 2 is not certain enough and leaves too many loose ends.
A negotiated settlement would be final.
I'm also not sure what "CLSO 2 and settlement" means?Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by ChimpMaster View PostIf you've settled < 2016 then those years are closed and not within 2019LC remit.
The previous settlement opportunity went to 2011. I am hoping that when the DR charge appears then all years up to and including 2010/11 will be treated as dealt with and over and that only years after that time will be included in the DR charge, regardless of whether the years are open or closed.
Where you have not used the previous CLSO, the loans for all years between 1999 and 2019 will be in the DR charge, regardless of whether he year in which the loan was drawn is open or closed.
Perhaps I've misunderstood the point?Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by vern19 View PostWhy is CLS02 the best option unless you have a closed year?
But then there is the 10 year anniversary charge for IHT which they could get you on in the future as the loan will still be outstanding but that is another issue.
I'm no tax expert, I'm stuck in the same situation as 60 000 other people but the LC is just an extension of the APNs so no good will come from paying that IMO.
The only advice I can give is to 100% get your settlement numbers for CLSO2 and then weigh it all up against the LC and any other tactic you may have. ie. fleeing the country to live in Saudi Arabia
Good luckComment
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Originally posted by phil@dswtres View PostI'm happy to ask that as I can ask for anything to be included, plus your theory about 'why would they have a problem if so confident" is sound and based on common sense but...honestly id be amazed if they ran with it (its HMRC and common sense we are talking about).So unless they shock me and agree I cant offer a service promising such a thing. Id say the chances of them agreeing are extremely minimal to say the least.
Ill let you know if that changes though. As I say, I'm happy to ask as no harm I guess.
What you mention is the main query people have to ask themselves I guess...'do I want to the risk of letting it run and potentially having a great result or just accept a more certain one now'. Not for me or indeed anyone to say what the best answer is as purely down to the individual and their own perception of acceptable risk. Sorry that's not helpful but there's no definite correct answer. It wouldn't be helpful if I said what id do either as some of us are risk takers and some risk averse.
All that being said, keep an eye out for the thread ill be posting tomorrow regarding HMRC behaviours/the press. (Please don't get hopes up here - its nothing life changing and unlikely to change the above answer but it is vaguely linked).
Regards,
Phil
Thanks again, if you hear anything about HMRC backing their confidence with a guarantee of refunds I'd be very interested in the settlement opportunity as that would help convince me that the 2019 legislation and settlement opportunity combo isn't just a ruse to tempt me into paying tax I don't really owe.
You suggested the situation is that settlement opportunity is a "more certain" outcome than the 2019 legislation and that may well be true. I would expect total certainty from HMRC settlement opportunities to be honest, I think that's only fair.
For example, I have a colleague who used the older settlement opportunity and HMRC refuse to confirm that he won't be subjected to the 2019 legislation on years that didn't require inclusion in that settlement. They also responded with a link to details of the new settlement opportunity, presumably to tempt him into paying up once more.
The situation makes me very concerned that if I use the new settlement opportunity, HMRC will just return for further taxes in the future as I've effectively admitted I was a "tax avoider" without any proof the scheme was illegal.
I look forward to your other news.Comment
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Originally posted by ChimpMaster View PostIf you've settled < 2016 then those years are closed and not within 2019LC remit.Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostAre you sure?
The previous settlement opportunity went to 2011. I am hoping that when the DR charge appears then all years up to and including 2010/11 will be treated as dealt with and over and that only years after that time will be included in the DR charge, regardless of whether the years are open or closed.
Where you have not used the previous CLSO, the loans for all years between 1999 and 2019 will be in the DR charge, regardless of whether he year in which the loan was drawn is open or closed.
Perhaps I've misunderstood the point?Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostPerhaps reading everything in context would help.
As I have very clearly stated, HMRC consider CLSO 2 to be an end to liability but will not give you certainty that no further charges can or will arise.
I am of the view that CLSO 2 is not certain enough and leaves too many loose ends.
A negotiated settlement would be final.
I'm also not sure what "CLSO 2 and settlement" means?Comment
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Originally posted by BrownOwl View PostHi Phil,
Thanks again, if you hear anything about HMRC backing their confidence with a guarantee of refunds I'd be very interested in the settlement opportunity as that would help convince me that the 2019 legislation and settlement opportunity combo isn't just a ruse to tempt me into paying tax I don't really owe.
You suggested the situation is that settlement opportunity is a "more certain" outcome than the 2019 legislation and that may well be true. I would expect total certainty from HMRC settlement opportunities to be honest, I think that's only fair.
For example, I have a colleague who used the older settlement opportunity and HMRC refuse to confirm that he won't be subjected to the 2019 legislation on years that didn't require inclusion in that settlement. They also responded with a link to details of the new settlement opportunity, presumably to tempt him into paying up once more.
The situation makes me very concerned that if I use the new settlement opportunity, HMRC will just return for further taxes in the future as I've effectively admitted I was a "tax avoider" without any proof the scheme was illegal.
I look forward to your other news.
It still stands that we can ask for it on a case by cases basis anyway and I would find it strange if HMRC refused as we would effectively be asking to include something they are already saying verbally.
Sorry its all as clear as mud but we are working on it and for once I am being mildly optimistic as I think will soon be resolved.
PhilComment
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Originally posted by difficulttimes View PostSorry wrong choice of words, I mean that in terms of settlement v LC possibly closed year may be a better option and the ONLY reason I say that is that you won't have an enquiry still hanging over your head in the future as you haven't got one now.
But then there is the 10 year anniversary charge for IHT which they could get you on in the future as the loan will still be outstanding but that is another issue.
I'm no tax expert, I'm stuck in the same situation as 60 000 other people but the LC is just an extension of the APNs so no good will come from paying that IMO.
The only advice I can give is to 100% get your settlement numbers for CLSO2 and then weigh it all up against the LC and any other tactic you may have. ie. fleeing the country to live in Saudi Arabia
Good luckComment
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