Sympathy for the Devil

[stonehenge]

...muddy the waters...

There's been a lot of that going on. Some of it bordering on the irresponsible.

Fact is, the clear intention of the Government, and Parliament passing the LC, is that anyone who has settled will be exempt from the charge.

[webberg]

There's been a lot of that going on. Some of it bordering on the irresponsible.

Fact is, the clear intention of the Government, and Parliament passing the LC, is that anyone who has settled will be exempt from the charge.

Is it irresponsible to report to a client the potential implications and consequences of what the words on a page of legislation say or what a contract says?

Or is it irresponsible to rely upon a statement from an agency that has hardly proven itself to be reliable or consistent and where in past tax cases, a Judge has decided that an HMRC opinion cannot be relied upon?

We make no apology for ensuring that a client understand the implications of what they are signing.

[ChimpMaster]

Is it irresponsible to report to a client the potential implications and consequences of what the words on a page of legislation say or what a contract says?

Or is it irresponsible to rely upon a statement from an agency that has hardly proven itself to be reliable or consistent and where in past tax cases, a Judge has decided that an HMRC opinion cannot be relied upon?

We make no apology for ensuring that a client understand the implications of what they are signing.

So in terms of "certainty" - or as close as one can get to that with HMRC - it sounds better to go with the 2019LC than to pay up under CLSO2.

[webberg]

So in terms of "certainty" - or as close as one can get to that with HMRC - it sounds better to go with the 2019LC than to pay up under CLSO2.

Again -

Paying the DR charge is NOT settling.

HMRC has said that even where the loan charge is paid, they will continue their enquiries.

In the event that they prove a tax charge in the year the loan was drawn a credit will be applied against the DR charge.

In terms of how you eventually end this situation, paying the DR charge is not relevant.

Your choices are

CLSO 2

Litigate

Settle via discussion

APN, DR charge etc are just ways to extract money and apply pressure to do one of the above.

[starstruck]

Again -

In terms of how you eventually end this situation, paying the DR charge is not relevant.

Your choices are

CLSO 2

Litigate

Settle via discussion

You can't be serious, so now CLSO2 and settlement are ends? You've just stated above you don't consider settlement to be an end.

[difficulttimes]

Offer letter..

Just thought I would let everyone know that I've heard that HMRC will be issuing a new 'offer letter' for settlement that will hopefully remove references to excluded loans and include reference to Loan Charge.

FWIW, I think unless you have a closed year then CLSO2 is your best option. Why would you want to wait for the loan charge and have an enquiry hanging over your head for HMRC to come back for more? ie. gross amount you received.
Also there are no discounts if 1 billion people came together for settlement - we aren't Apple so I think we need to move on from there and settlement is final on their terms. If there were better terms then everyone will be doing it. There is NO going back for both parties so you can't have a halfway option. It's take it or leave it BUT hopefully HMRC's new offer letter will put paid to some of the concerns that people have.

It's a crap situation for everyone but really be careful not to miss out on CLSO2 as the alternative could be far worse and I've heard of people getting up to 7 years TTP which I think is easier if you were to negotiate as only you know your financial situation. There is NO chance you will get 7 years TTP for the loan charge.

There seems to be a lot of people asking the same question hoping for a different answer.



Just my thoughts...

[stonehenge]

Reminds me of one of my late father-in-law's favourite sayings "bullsh;t baffles brains".

If HMRC are reading this, they must be having a right old giggle.

[ChimpMaster]

Just thought I would let everyone know that I've heard that HMRC will be issuing a new 'offer letter' for settlement that will hopefully remove references to excluded loans and include reference to Loan Charge.

FWIW, I think unless you have a closed year then CLSO2 is your best option. Why would you want to wait for the loan charge and have an enquiry hanging over your head for HMRC to come back for more? ie. gross amount you received.
Also there are no discounts if 1 billion people came together for settlement - we aren't Apple so I think we need to move on from there and settlement is final on their terms. If there were better terms then everyone will be doing it. There is NO going back for both parties so you can't have a halfway option. It's take it or leave it BUT hopefully HMRC's new offer letter will put paid to some of the concerns that people have.

It's a crap situation for everyone but really be careful not to miss out on CLSO2 as the alternative could be far worse and I've heard of people getting up to 7 years TTP which I think is easier if you were to negotiate as only you know your financial situation. There is NO chance you will get 7 years TTP for the loan charge.

There seems to be a lot of people asking the same question hoping for a different answer.

Just my thoughts...

Who's going to receive these offer letters?

CLSO2 is the way to go to get this mess off your mind. Especially with reference to the part in bold above. But what if you don't have any open enquiries? All my years are closed and from before 2010. It is a very messy and confusing situation.

[badchi]

Who's going to receive these offer letters?

CLSO2 is the way to go to get this mess off your mind. Especially with reference to the part in bold above. But what if you don't have any open enquiries? All my years are closed and from before 2010. It is a very messy and confusing situation.

Hi, I'm a bit confused Are closed years the years you have settled? My earlier years have been settled with HMRC. If they are settled then are they still subject to any loan charges?

[ChimpMaster]

Hi, I'm a bit confused Are closed years the years you have settled? My earlier years have been settled with HMRC. If they are settled then are they still subject to any loan charges?

If you've settled < 2016 then those years are closed and not within 2019LC remit.

My closed years are from < 2010 and by 'closed' I mean that I never had an enquiry opened on them, even though all information was submitted on SA and evident on P60.