BIG GROUP

[kmpm]

How so I subscribe?

[dangerouswhensober]

How so I subscribe?

Hi kmpm -

At the moment it is enough to "pledge" an amount of £50. We are in the first stage - assembling a "critical mass" of group members who may be willing to commit to long-term action (and long-term financial commitment).

Our mentor and legal advisor is "webberg" who is a tax professional (and who is also unaffected by the legislation we are seeking to challenge). He is currently preparing formal objectives and a constitution for the group (see post #1 and #145 for more details). There will almost certainly be an initial meeting or conference call in the very near future.

You should also know that, as yet, no group members have met face-to-face.

The current "pledge" count is 70 people (including yourself) plus four more possible members (who have expressed interest but not yet committed). This number has been achieved in less than two weeks since the initial post on this thread.

And ... I do not speak for the group - I'm just repeating and distilling what has been written on this thread thus far.

Please let us know if you don't wish to proceed.

Best wishes - hope you stay with us ...

[jenlemon]

+1

Count me in too please. Happy to pledge £50 to get started.

[jonnieboy]

+1

Count me in - if nothing else, there's a warm, fuzzy feeling from knowing you're not alone.

[Wellred100]

Count me in

[Skorekaj]

Count me in too.

[Samatra]

add one more to the list in addtion to me

[philinlondon]

Same here,pls let me know what I need to do. I just watched Selma last night, it has given me some hope.

[charlom]

I'm in also. Good work.

[ffs]

This started elsewhere but should be on its own.

I have two takers so far.

To clarify this BIG GROUP is ONE GROUP across ALL schemes.

It does not impact action individuals may wish to take on their own or via other groups.

Let's indulge in some speculation.

A group is formed.

It decides that there are perhaps 4 scheme "types" that are potentially caught by HMRC's present interpretations.

It knows that HMRC is not prepared to be sensible in settlement and therefore the only strategy is to defend a number of cases at Tribunal in the hope that a less than 100% victory for HMRC will force them to the table.

I am a little confused but I'm not sure how you can claim that any BIG GROUP actions will not impact individual actions ? I thought the only way to eventually get this resolved was by individual test cases going to FTT/UTT etc Is it possible to be represented by 2 different tax advisors ?

And I think that HMRC would only negotiate if they had less than 50% chance of victory, not less than 100%

The group also defends to extent possible, APN claims and other spurious attempts from the agency to extract funds. This is on the basis that civil disobedience and tying up HMRC resource is an effective strategy.

That may require 5 years.

We'll allow 4 full time staff (admin/website/etc) and a panel of experts. Accommodation, telephone etc. Say £200,000 a year tops. So £1m over 5 years.

"Experts" budget perhaps £1.5m over that period. That's pretty much one average (in terms of charge out rate) tax specialist full time for 5 years.

So £2.5m over 5 years. Let's say £3m.

If the cost per individual was £10 a month for 60 months, how many are needed?

£3m/60/£10 = 5,000 people.

How many contractors impacted?

I don't know. If 100,000, then we're looking at 5% membership.

I thought there were only 30,000 people in total that were caught in the HMRC retro-tax / EBT nightmare ? Where does the 100,000 figure come from ? And 4 people full time for 5 years seems a bit excessive surely ?

To get to that value requires some form of advertising campaign and that in turn requires some seed funding.

There are "litigation funders" out there. They work by advancing legal costs in return for a cut of a "win".

What is defined by a "win" ? We have sod all chance of getting damages from HMRC so do you mean these "litigation funders" would expect a cut of the 'disputed taxes' we are currently fighting to hold on to ?

They might be interested. More likely something like this forum could run a pre funding group and effectively put up initial funds.

I reckon perhaps £25,000 to run the ads and initial letter/email/website stuff.

How many people here?

500? That's £50 each.

So the deal is:

Put up £50. Put up some of your undoubted IT expertise. Hire a temporary project director (on a contract). Ask for volunteers for a steering group (I'd be interested). Elect/appoint a steering committee.

Spend the initial money over 6 months and see what the response is and re-evaluate.

If this is a "go", membership is £10 a month for 60 months (perhaps less/more). Alternatively pay £500 day 1 and then nothing until month 61.

Make sure to get anybody who is willing from NTRT. Make sure to include some PR.

Anybody?

Don't get me wrong, I'll gladly put up £600 to cause grief to HMRC. I am already a paid up member of NTRT even though their s58/BN66 arguments do not apply to me, it is the principle I am fighting for!

I just want to make sure there is no spinning going on and I kind of feel that any arguments you may present are already being presented.

Thanks,

FFS