IR35 is dead

[wendigo100]

There is still other legislation about (S660 is still awaiting an appeal)

There is still work to be done to eduacate the agencies that (IR35 aside) we don't want to be viewed/treated as employees and are in fact in business on our own account through choice.

Quite right pondlife.

Also, New Labour will always want to punish tax-avoiding contractors. The difficulty they have is finding or drawing up legislation that won't also apply to any of their cronies. S660 is the next big danger, and PCG are switching their attention to fighting that.

[wendigo100]

They're probably reading this thread too.

I hope you haven't posted anything nasty about Gordon then!

[wonderwaif]

They're probably reading this thread too.

I hope they read the thread where I said I employed an accountant to make sure I paid the correct amount of tax.

[Cowboy Bob]

Just to say I agree 100% with The Lone Gunman. The PCG is there to further the PCGs aims - maybe at first it attempted to be representative of the majority of contractors views, but you know the saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It has a monopoly in it's niche in the contracting world and boy does it behave like it. It does not speak for all contractors IMO. It provides useful services for contractors (advice, contracts, insurance deals etc), but speak for all contractors it does not.

[John Galt]

I agree (not sure who with) - we need to know if this rumour has any substance to it and the PCG should be trying to find out if there is any truth behind it. To be honest I am beginning to wonder if they are really interested in us any more or just how much money they can make off our backs

[malvolio]

It is only a report that the tax investigators are being laid off and general inquiries which include the random selection of tagets for IR35 investigations are being phased out in favour of more selective attacks on the more ovbious cases of avoidance. Nobody said IR35 was dead, nobody said they won't still pursue it and nobody said they won't take notice if someone suddenly changes their payment structure... What they have said is that they will chase people where there is either a significant chance of a win or of recovering a significant amount of tax. (BTW, did you notice they are now advertising for new staff to work in an expanded call centre function?)

And as for the PCG, they're not doing much - if you ignore the ongoing work on visa and FTV abuses, IR35, S660a, Security Clearance abuse by agencies, standardising contracts for REC and ATSCo, persuading big agencies to stop treating contractors as employees, participating in half a dozen ongoing consultations (some of which look like they'll work in our favour), accreditation for IR35 savvy accountants, accreditation of CV histories, ISO9001 for a tenth the cost, working on a new way to run the Freelance market place that takes the power away from the agencies, updated educational material for newbies, ....

I could go on, but you wouldn't listen anyway.

And if you want to talk win ratios, the 1250-3 ratio is only part of the truth - other people not associated with PCG are also winning almost every case they challenge. The real number is probably closer to to double the PCG count.

[DimPrawn]

[Cowboy Bob]

And as for the PCG, they're not doing much - if you ignore the ongoing work on visa and FTV abuses, IR35, S660a, Security Clearance abuse by agencies, standardising contracts for REC and ATSCo, persuading big agencies to stop treating contractors as employees, participating in half a dozen ongoing consultations (some of which look like they'll work in our favour), accreditation for IR35 savvy accountants, accreditation of CV histories, ISO9001 for a tenth the cost, working on a new way to run the Freelance market place that takes the power away from the agencies, updated educational material for newbies, ....

First of all, I agree with S660a. It's a blatent tax dodge as far as I'm concerned, and whilst I know we all look for ways to optimise our tax there is a line where it strays into tax evasion which the Arctic people crossed IMO. Evading tax is cheating everyone. I also agree with IR35 up to a point. I don't agree with it for short term contracts, but if the contract lasts for more than a year, then IMO that is also tax evasion as you really are a disguised employee - certainly in the IT sector. IR35 would be fair I think if time constraints were added.

The people who are effectively perma-temps or people who are blatently taking the piss over tax are not the kind of people the PCG should be touting as hard-done-by. It gives us all a bad name and is the reason why Gordon Brown is probably at this very moment thinking about IR35 - the sequel.

The persueding agencies thing is a joke. They're not listening. They don't have to. Why do they care? They've got a plentiful supply of people who don't know their arse from their elbow in the contracting world. What the PCG should be doing is targetting contractors to educate them and putting the pressure on the agencies in that way. But, as I said before, the PCG don't seem to want to listen to lowly contractors, the top brass have their own agendas.

And if you want to talk win ratios, the 1250-3 ratio is only part of the truth - other people not associated with PCG are also winning almost every case they challenge. The real number is probably closer to to double the PCG count.

To be honest, that's got bugger all to do with the PCG. That's down to the excellent work by Accountax, Lawspeed, Bauer & Cottrell etc etc.

[wattaj]

Blah, blah... Blah, blah, blah... Grrrr... Please listen to me I am correct... Blah, blah... Why won't you take me seriously.... Blah

Yup, quite right.
Good man, keep up the good work.

[malvolio]

I didn't say it was the PCG wot did it - although wthout them, probably nobody would have done it, since there's little commercial advantage in taking on the tax man. And while we're on the subject:

S660a - crap, Arctic systems applied the law of the land, as recommended by their accountant and by the DTI's own small business website. Hector re-interpreted rules that were meant to stop one particlalr and very specific kind of abuse. Sir Philip Green does exactly the same thing as Arctic (only more blatantly - all his income goes to his wife) and he gets a knighthood. The case is not now about defending Mr and Mrs Jones, it's about fairness and equality in the tax system.

IR35 - duration is nothing to do with it, never has been, never will be. If you can keep a customer paying you for long periods of time, is that not just good business?

Composites are clear tax avoidances, as I have always maintained, and I actually agree are nothing more than a pisstake. Umbrellas mean you pay full PAYE and NIC, so where's the cheating other than on the side of the taxman?

Evasion is not cheating, it's illegal. Avoidance is not cheating, it's legal and was actually ratified as being acceptable by the then Chancellor in the House in the 80s. It's only GB that is trying to make it synonymous with evasion.

So good, but no cigar. Go and do some more research.