Well Done Denmark

[Mich the Tester]

Blimey Mich, that was a very well thought out way of saying "I don't know"

Well yes, it's one of those issues where the more I get to know about it the less certain I am.

[doodab]

Well yes, it's one of those issues where the more I get to know about it the less certain I am.

Usually a sign of an intelligent mind.

[DaveB]

According to a muslim friend, for meat to be properly 'halal', it must have been raised in a humane way and any meat from modern 'factory farming' cannot be called halal. The islamic laws on this go much further than the slaughter and actually cover the whole animal's life, because animals are seen as 'nations' in the Qu'ran, which must be treated with respect just like human 'nations'.

So you see I struggle with answering the question. If meat was truly halal then I'd rather eat it than your bog standard supermarket meat, because the animal's life was probably rather better. But, 'humanely slaughtered' meat from an animal that's lived a tulip life couped up in a confined space; is that really any better? Plus; an animal that is slaughtered by a halal or kosher method involves confronting humans with what they're doing; that's at least the symbolism of having an imam or a priest present, and factory meat might be slaughtered by an automated process and some bloke pressing buttons who never actually sees what he's doing.

Of course, I'd prefer that all meat is raised AND slaughtered as humanely as possible, but while we can buy factory farmed, hormone filled meat from unhealthy animals, I find it rather hypocricital to legislating against halal and kosher slaughter. Let's sort the whole process out instead of purely focussing on a ritual at the end of an animal's life.

WMTTS +1

Strictly speaking Halal requires that the animal be conscious but the Halal food authority (who certify meat going into fast food chains, processed foods and supermarkets etc in the UK, rather than local butchers) allow the animals to be stunned first. This makes the process identical to the non-Halal process used in european slaughter houses, other than the spiritual component of the Halal process - A recitation dedicating the animal to God.

According to the RSPCA 90% of animals slaughtered for Halal meat in the Uk in 2004 were stunned before being killed so as far as supermarket meat goes, there's really no difference. Although I'm sure the Daily Mail would love you to think otherwise.

Definition of Halal

Specifically on the use of stunning prior to slaughter.

FAQs - Question 3.

The major difference between Halal and Kosher is that the Kosher requirements do not permit stunning of the animal before slaughter. Otherwise the process is identical and no different to the "normal" european methods.

In both cases the welfare of the animal is regarded as a vital part of the process and failure to provides for this would make the meat impure. You could make the argument that a Kosher or Halal slaughter man is more likely to care about this as a fundamental religious belief than another without that belief. This does of course ignore human nature and the lack of scruples in some people where money is concerned, but that applies equally in a non-religous environment.

[NotAllThere]

I worked in one place where a Rabbi was on the bill of materials. One had to be brought in to bless the products intended for use during Passover.

[d000hg]

Well yes, it's one of those issues where the more I get to know about it the less certain I am.

The more you know, the more you think "bugger this, I fancy a steak and some beer"

[Flashman]

According to a muslim friend, for meat to be properly 'halal', it must have been raised in a humane way and any meat from modern 'factory farming' cannot be called halal. The islamic laws on this go much further than the slaughter and actually cover the whole animal's life, because animals are seen as 'nations' in the Qu'ran, which must be treated with respect just like human 'nations'.

So you see I struggle with answering the question. If meat was truly halal then I'd rather eat it than your bog standard supermarket meat, because the animal's life was probably rather better. But, 'humanely slaughtered' meat from an animal that's lived a tulip life couped up in a confined space; is that really any better? Plus; an animal that is slaughtered by a halal or kosher method involves confronting humans with what they're doing; that's at least the symbolism of having an imam or a priest present, and factory meat might be slaughtered by an automated process and some bloke pressing buttons who never actually sees what he's doing.

Of course, I'd prefer that all meat is raised AND slaughtered as humanely as possible, but while we can buy factory farmed, hormone filled meat from unhealthy animals, I find it rather hypocricital to legislating against halal and kosher slaughter. Let's sort the whole process out instead of purely focussing on a ritual at the end of an animal's life.

God knows who your 'friend' is but ask him about this...

Ban Live Export - official site

The islamic laws on this go much further than the slaughter and actually cover the whole animal's life, because animals are seen as 'nations' in the Qu'ran, which must be treated with respect just like human 'nations'

Ermmm yeah ok.

Still on the fence?

[d000hg]

I'm sure a site called ban live exports.com is very unbiased. Why are you taking as gospel words on their website?

[DaveB]

I'm sure a site called ban live exports.com is very unbiased. Why are you taking as gospel words on their website?

[wurzel]

God knows who your 'friend' is but ask him about this...

Ban Live Export - official site



Ermmm yeah ok.

Still on the fence?

Yeah, a lot of the lamb consumed in the Middle East comes from live exports & the conditions in which they are transported are pretty awful if you believe any number of exposés that have been done on it over the years.

[oscarose]

fyi

A Buddhist take on factory farming