Russell Brand

[Mich the Tester]

The police force (Plebgate, Guildford Four etc) and NHS (Alder Hey & Bristol) are a perfect reason why we shouldn't have such a system. People have to be accountable, this results in spokespeople that the public like and hopefully get things done.

Have you never seen the film Brazil?

What we do have to do is shorten the chain between the public, experts and the Politicians.

Accountability is indeed important, but accountancy is too. Why oh why has almost no government in Europe since 1945, with the exception of I think Norway, and John Major's government (once) mnanaged to balance the bleedin' books and make do with the money they have without running up more and more debt? I wonder if it would be possible to somehow seperate the budgetters from the spenders while making both accountable. Germany has a reasonably working system, as their constitution places strict limits on the cirumstances in which government can take on debts, but that isn't a perfect system either. But how in heaven's name are we going to stop politicians continually spending more than they get in revenues?

[amcdonald]

When you have a system where politicians can bribe voters with their own money, it's almost inevitable that overspending will occur

[SueEllen]

Accountability is indeed important, but accountancy is too. Why oh why has almost no government in Europe since 1945, with the exception of I think Norway, and John Major's government (once) mnanaged to balance the bleedin' books and make do with the money they have without running up more and more debt? I wonder if it would be possible to somehow seperate the budgetters from the spenders while making both accountable. Germany has a reasonably working system, as their constitution places strict limits on the cirumstances in which government can take on debts, but that isn't a perfect system either. But how in heaven's name are we going to stop politicians continually spending more than they get in revenues?

You can't.

Politicians aim to get elected and stay in power as long as possible - as a result they will promise the demographic that is more likely to vote anything to get them to vote for them.

[vetran]

Given that the cases you mention are all the result of such a system, I don't really see how you can use them as evidence for it's continued existence.

Because they are run and policed by 'experts' and administered by civil servants. You propose extending such a system.

The politicians, public action and a free press are the reason the cover ups were uncovered. If we extended the experts to running the government very soon it would be illegal to question the state.

Now creating long term plans, I totally agree with and the Politicians and Public dance around such things depending on their personal effect. If only we could find a way without losing liberties.

[Mich the Tester]

When you have a system where politicians can bribe voters with their own money, it's almost inevitable that overspending will occur

Indeed. 'Blackmail' might be a better word than bribe though.

Maybe budgetary matters should be returned to HM the Queen or even the Prince of Wales, seeing as they've proven themselves capable of running their estates at a profit.

[Mich the Tester]

Well, it's council election time in NL next year, and EU parliament elections too if I'm not mistaken; I can vote in both.

I'm going to give every politician who turns up at my doorstep (and they do, for some reason) a wishlist of things I'd really like in the area;
- velodrome
- new indoor swimming pool
- a stadium for the rugby club
- and some more nice stuff and some food for the poor folks

The first politician who gives the honest answer of 'very nice but we can't afford it' will get my vote.

[DodgyAgent]

Well, it's council election time in NL next year, and EU parliament elections too if I'm not mistaken; I can vote in both.

I'm going to give every politician who turns up at my doorstep (and they do, for some reason) a wishlist of things I'd really like in the area;
-lap dancing bar

The first politician with a decent pair of n***s will get my vote.

FTFY

[Mich the Tester]

FTFY

Not much chance of that from this lot;
Organisatie

Maybe there's a gap in the market; the Big Tits and Tight Budgets Party.

[Mich the Tester]

To illustrate my point, the council used to be housed in this modest but attractive building;



Then, having merged with another smallish village with a similar council building, they spent 29 million euros on building this huge abomination to house the hundreds of bureaucrats that local government has accumulated;





What in the bloody hell's name is going on? How can we go, in 50 years or so, from small, modest government that involves a few sensible people running basic services for the sake of the public, to a huge mammoth of an organisation that actually provides LESS services to the public than at any time since the war?

All over Europe we are being ripped off, conned, blackmailed out of our earnings and defrauded in the name of an industry that produces very little of what we want but saddles us all with eternal debt. It's not the mafia, illegal immigrants, drug traders, bad banks or ponzi schemes; it's our own bloody governments.

[lukemg]

When you have a system where politicians can bribe voters with their own money, it's almost inevitable that overspending will occur

Couldn't agree more, short election cycle has this as an inevitable consequence.
On the good side, I am coining it and have been for a while so although I can see gaps in how things are setup, the game seems to work great for me so that lowers my concern. In addition, I don't see any prospect of anything I do influencing anything about how things are setup....ever.
So, I refuse to spend any time worrying about it.
Is there a utopian dream found by other countries that can give us a better framework ? Nein, although Norway have done some brilliant work in relation to their Sovereign Fund from oil (with an acceptance that they didn't have the same expenses as the UK).