Crimewatch - Madeleine McCann

[MyUserName]

What I am establishing here is the legitamcy of you judging the Mcanns. I am trying to understand at what point they crossed the divide and went from being responsible parents to being irresponsible parents. In otherwords where was the fine line at which they were partly responsible or totally responsible for exposing their child to the danger of an abductor.

You are imposing your own standards of legitimacy on other people even though there are no accepted rules or laws to say that your rules are either right or fair.

Well I have an opinion and it has come up in conversation, I am not sure it is the same as judging them. Maybe it is but *shrug* sounds more aggressive than I feel. I am not sure there is an exact fine line. More shades of grey but that is far greyer than I think is responsible. They could have been worse and been ever greyer again of course.

If you do not want to answer the question then tell us what you would have done whilst going on that ill fated holiday. Would you have just stayed in with the kids all night? Done a rota with the wife or what?

Which question is it you think I don't want to answer? I thought I answered your question, asked you one in return which you have avoided answering.

As for what would I have done I would probably have had a rota with the wife. When we do shows she drinks on the Friday and I drink on the Saturday. If it is someone's birthday and we are going out on the town (but cannot get a babysitter) one us goes out for the first few hours and then we swap.

What would you have done?

[Old Greg]

So if you left them in bed to go and help a neighbour across the road who thought they were having a heart attack, would that be equally (drastically) negligent?

Is the neighbour actually having a heart attack. and if not, might he reasonably have known that he was not actually having a heart attack?

[rhubarb]

If it is someone's birthday and we are going out on the town (but cannot get a babysitter) one us goes out for the first few hours and then we swap.

I'm lucky in this respect, in that I have no friends and therefore don't go out.

[Old Greg]

What if the parents had irresponsibly sneaked out for tapas but unbeknownst to them, the abductor had just silently broken into the apartment while they were still inside and abducted the child. The parents foil the kidnap by coming across the abductor outside. Are they now equally to blame as they are in the situation that actually occurred?

[MyUserName]

So if you left them in bed to go and help a neighbour across the road who thought they were having a heart attack, would that be equally (drastically) negligent?

A very tricky judgement call, as I said earlier it is shades of grey rather than a definite line. I do not stay in the same house as my children solely to protect them from random fires that start up, the odds of that are so small as to be negligible. I stay there to make sure that I am there if they wake up, get hurt, get scared, are hungry, need a cuddle etc.

So, balancing that against saving someone's life I would probably go out (assuming I knew for a fact someone's life hung in the balance etc.) and get back as soon as possible. Even across the street I would probably come back to make sure things were okay after 10 minutes or so at the max.

If within 10 minutes or less a random fire somehow started and managed to kill both of my children without me being aware anything was amiss then I would probably not consider myself drastically negligent.


Would you go to the pub for an all nighter and leave your children alone?

[MyUserName]

What if the parents had irresponsibly sneaked out for tapas but unbeknownst to them, the abductor had just silently broken into the apartment while they were still inside and abducted the child. The parents foil the kidnap by coming across the abductor outside. Are they now equally to blame as they are in the situation that actually occurred?

Would probably have to reset to first positions and restart the play.

[Old Greg]

A very tricky judgement call, as I said earlier it is shades of grey rather than a definite line. I do not stay in the same house as my children solely to protect them from random fires that start up, the odds of that are so small as to be negligible. I stay there to make sure that I am there if they wake up, get hurt, get scared, are hungry, need a cuddle etc.

So, balancing that against saving someone's life I would probably go out (assuming I knew for a fact someone's life hung in the balance etc.) and get back as soon as possible. Even across the street I would probably come back to make sure things were okay after 10 minutes or so at the max.

If within 10 minutes or less a random fire somehow started and managed to kill both of my children without me being aware anything was amiss then I would probably not consider myself drastically negligent.


Would you go to the pub for an all nighter and leave your children alone?

Are we assuming there is an alternative supply of alcoholic refreshment in the house or not in this situation?

[DodgyAgent]

Well I have an opinion and it has come up in conversation, I am not sure it is the same as judging them. Maybe it is but *shrug* sounds more aggressive than I feel. I am not sure there is an exact fine line. More shades of grey but that is far greyer than I think is responsible. They could have been worse and been ever greyer again of course.



Which question is it you think I don't want to answer? I thought I answered your question, asked you one in return which you have avoided answering.

As for what would I have done I would probably have had a rota with the wife. When we do shows she drinks on the Friday and I drink on the Saturday. If it is someone's birthday and we are going out on the town (but cannot get a babysitter) one us goes out for the first few hours and then we swap.

What would you have done?

I would have done what the Mccanns did. 50 yards from the room check every 20 minutes ensure there was a wandering babysitter listening out. My point here is that the people who go around tutting at the Mcanns behaviour and somehow think that they can apportion blame to them for the abduction of the child are wrong. Whether you or I had done the same thing is actually irrelevant. The point I am making is that actually it is none of our business just as someone telling you that your child is scruffy would be.

You and all the other people who make such a fuss about their behaviour should butt out and get on with rearing your children as you think they should be reared. The fact is the Mcanns had a child abducted and whether it was taken from under the noses of the SAS or taken whilst it was asleep 50 yards from its parents does not matter. The Mcanns deserve our sympathy and support not a series of lessons from sanctimonious dick heads.

[MyUserName]

My point here is that the people who go around tutting at the Mcanns behaviour and somehow think that they can apportion blame to them for the abduction of the child are wrong.

Agreed, as I have said many times in this thread. They are not to blame for the abduction*

The point I am making is that actually it is none of our business just as someone telling you that your child is scruffy would be.

I have never told them that I thought they were irresponsible, nor would I if I met them. Just as if someone thought my child was scruffy they might tell me just in case I was somehow not aware, I really do not care if complete strangers discuss it amongst themselves though.

You and all the other people who make such a fuss about their behaviour should butt out and get on with rearing your children as you think they should be reared.

I am not sure mentioning my opinion to others on an internet forum when someone else raised the subject is really making 'such a fuss', do you? What exactly should I be butting out of? This thread? The tendency to say what I think when it comes up in conversation? Explaining why I think it? What?

The fact is the Mcanns had a child abducted and whether it was taken from under the noses of the SAS or taken whilst it was asleep 50 yards from its parents does not matter.

Agreed (again).

The Mcanns deserve our sympathy and support not a series of lessons from sanctimonious dick heads.

Yep, they have my deepest sympathy and support. I cannot (and do not want to) imagine going through what they are. I assume that the name calling was not directed at me as I have not tried giving them lessons in anything.

*if there was one

[oracleslave]

The point I am making is that actually it is none of our business just as someone telling you that your child is scruffy would be.

That may be so. However, if someone asked me "in their position would you have done the same" the answer would be no.