Crimewatch - Madeleine McCann

[Hairy]

The parents are the victims just as much as the child is. They are the ones that are hurt by this.

Exposed by this, as well as hurt. I'd venture maddy has been having a harder time of it though.

Their own doing unfortunately.

[TykeMerc]

I am sorry but they are not different in terms of who is responsible for the crime. You are apportioning blame on the parents for "encouraging" someone to steal their child by leaving the gate open. What is the difference between that and a girl wearing skimpy clothes and "encouraging" a man to rape her. Both scenarios show a lack of responsibility from the victim.

The reason you dont like it is because one offends the sanctity of a womans right to be herself and dress how she likes without having to worry about the effect it may have on other people (men). and the other one offers you an opportunity to show your superiority in the parenting department

The difference between your two scenarios is the hypothetical woman is an adult, responsible for herself and can take reasonable (or unreasonable) precautions to protect herself, where as the victim in the Maddie case was a 3 year old and those responsible for her care and well-being and that of her siblings CHOSE to sod off and leave them unattended.

Chalk and cheese, you're arguing to troll and not make rational points.

It's an inescapable and admitted fact the parents did not take reasonable precautions when they elected to both leave the apartment with unattended children and so they bear a hefty chunk of responsibility for their actions. Simply put if they hadn't both gone out odds are that the child would not be missing (whatever the reason for that absence).

[MyUserName]

Hmm, rather than leave the conversation you have to tell everyone you're leaving. How apt.

Perhaps it struck as being a better option than winning the argument with you and have you stick her on your ignore list?

Either way, you were being a spanner.

[MaryPoppins]

No, but some of the judgments are a bit fierce when the circumstances of what happened can't possibly be known by all of us.

Here, or in general do you mean? I think here what we're only really arguing about is whether leaving the kids alone was the right thing to do.

[MaryPoppins]

I don't think you're mollycoddling!

I don't think I could be anything further!

[Mich the Tester]

Here, or in general do you mean? I think here what we're only really arguing about is whether leaving the kids alone was the right thing to do.

In general, not just CUK general ; when the conversation turns to this horrible matter in the pub, at friends' houses, in CUK or anywhere, I mostly just turn away and talk with someone else because I don't like the way many people are so fiercely judgmental of a young couple who obviously made a mistake but might actually have been damned good parents 99.995% of the time and just had one moment of silliness. But when I've tried to point that out to people I just ended up with all the bile being thrown at me; I can do without that. Maybe I look at it a little (too?) detached because I don't have kids.

[darmstadt]

We had a wardrobe in our house when my son was younger...I could poo in peace. Actually neither of us ever took him to the toilet when we were alone with him unless out in public...still have to in fact (and he was 22 today)

[amcdonald]

We had a wardrobe in our house when my son was younger...I could poo in peace. Actually neither of us ever took him to the toilet when we were alone with him unless out in public...still have to in fact (and he was 22 today)

You used to tulip in your wardrobe

[DodgyAgent]

So would you be blameless in that scenario or not?

Blame is irrelevant. The emotion at play here is guilt. I would feel terribly guilty whatever the scenario. I even feel guilt when my children fail at school, get bullied or do no work.
If I had them snatched from me at gunpoint I would feel just as guilty as if I had left them in an unlocked room whilst I was on the pop.
By apportioning blame at the Mcanns we are moving into the territory of judging and blaming victims for the crimes committed against them. It is all very well for these rich stay at home mums or dads (or with the help of nanny)- the privileged lot (you know who you are) to cast judgement on others, but that privileged ability to be able to watch over their children 24 hours a day is a rarity amongst parents even in the UK.

We might not like it but not every parent thinks like we do or comes from the top one percent of the earning class and most of them bring their children up just fine. The fact that a child has been abducted is not the fault of the parents it is the fault of the low life who did the kidnapping. I just hope that when the cotton wool kids with the judgemental parents grow up and start taking drugs the rest of us do not stoop to blaming the parents.

[Churchill]

Blame is irrelevant. The emotion at play here is guilt. I would feel terribly guilty whatever the scenario. I even feel guilt when my children fail at school, get bullied or do no work.
If I had them snatched from me at gunpoint I would feel just as guilty as if I had left them in an unlocked room whilst I was on the pop.
By apportioning blame at the Mcanns we are moving into the territory of judging and blaming victims for the crimes committed against them. It is all very well for these rich stay at home mums or dads (or with the help of nanny)- the privileged lot (you know who you are) to cast judgement on others, but that privileged ability to be able to watch over their children 24 hours a day is a rarity amongst parents even in the UK.

We might not like it but not every parent thinks like we do or comes from the top one percent of the earning class and most of them bring their children up just fine. The fact that a child has been abducted is not the fault of the parents it is the fault of the low life who did the kidnapping. I just hope that when the cotton wool kids with the judgemental parents grow up and start taking drugs the rest of us do not stoop to blaming the parents.

That's assuming the child was abducted. There's no evidence this happened.