Jaguar SUV; I am not impressed

[Mich the Tester]

Making it twice as tall might just swing it though.

Yes, the 'mobile mansion' with B&Q fake marble pillars look, favoured by travellers all over Europe.

[NigelJK]

Keeping to the theme. It was not that long ago when 'Jaaaaag buffs' were up in arms about a diesel Jag. Just not the done thing etc.
Until Clarkson drove one from France to Blackpool competing against a VW Blue and some other 'eco friendly' motor.
The 2.7 TVDi is now the most sought after engine in any Jag in the secondhand market.
Would still prefer the X350 XJR tho' as the new XJ (to use another Clarkson-ism) is ugly enough to frighten small children.

And if you have to have the 5.3 have it in a Daimler Double Six Coupe.

<ducks>

[Mich the Tester]

Keeping to the theme. It was not that long ago when 'Jaaaaag buffs' were up in arms about a diesel Jag. Just not the done thing etc.
Until Clarkson drove one from France to Blackpool competing against a VW Blue and some other 'eco friendly' motor.
The 2.7 TVDi is now the most sought after engine in any Jag in the secondhand market.
Would still prefer the X350 XJR tho' as the new XJ (to use another Clarkson-ism) is ugly enough to frighten small children.

And if you have to have the 5.3 have it in a Daimler Double Six Coupe.

<ducks>

That's because it's a fantastic engine. It sounds a bit diesel-ish on a cold start, but once it's warm, it sounds like the V6 that it is. It has a mountain of torque that leaves many much newer diesels behind.

[Old Hack]

That's because it's a fantastic engine. It sounds a bit diesel-ish on a cold start, but once it's warm, it sounds like the V6 that it is. It has a mountain of torque that leaves many much newer diesels behind.

But still miles behind the BMW and Audi diesels. The first diesel they had only put out 200 odd bhp, 320 ftlb and iirc, was a joint PSA/Ford effort. The Beemer and Audi twin turbo diesels 3 litres were pumping out 310/320bhp and 465/480 ft lb of torque.

The diesel for the jag is a nice engine, make no mistake, but far, far from being near the best

[Mich the Tester]

But still miles behind the BMW and Audi diesels. The first diesel they had only put out 200 odd bhp, 320 ftlb and iirc, was a joint PSA/Ford effort. The Beemer and Audi twin turbo diesels 3 litres were pumping out 310/320bhp and 465/480 ft lb of torque.

The diesel for the jag is a nice engine, make no mistake, but far, far from being near the best

You're just begging for an argument aren't you, SUVman?

[Old Hack]

You're just begging for an argument aren't you, SUVman?

Not really, I just know what I am talking about.

If you've driven a 335d, or 535d, you'd know what a special engine was. The new Audi bi-turbo is something to behold to. There is news a triple turbo coming out, which pushes the boat out further.

I had a Jag XF 3.0 TTDCI for a couple of weeks. Lovely car, wonderful car, but, unfortunately, I had previously been in a 535d which was simply better in the engine department.

[Mich the Tester]

Not really, I just know what I am talking about.

If you've driven a 335d, or 535d, you'd know what a special engine was. The new Audi bi-turbo is something to behold to. There is news a triple turbo coming out, which pushes the boat out further.

I had a Jag XF 3.0 TTDCI for a couple of weeks. Lovely car, wonderful car, but, unfortunately, I had previously been in a 535d which was simply better in the engine department.

The Jag diesel V6 sounds and feels great, whatever the numbers say. I have owned two BMWs and one Mercedes; they were very, very good, but I found them boring. I owned an Alfa 166, which was tulip in many ways, but I enjoyed it on the one day a year that the sun shined, everything worked and the roads were quiet. I wouldn't consider an Audi as they obviously cause such stress to their drivers that they have to be driven 3 centimetres from the person in front, in a swinging from side to side and remonstrating motion. I now own my second Jaguar and it's wonderful. OK, the window rattles a bit, it needs some care and attention from a mechanic every few months but it's still wonderful. I pay a stonking great muck cart full of tax whether I get myself a Prius and save the planet and pay myself a big salary, or I get a completly unreasonable supercharged V8 and pay myself less profit, but pay my tax at the fuel pump. The second option is more attractive to me because that way I get some pleasure in return for the taxes. I also get to sneer at middle managers in Audis, stressing their way to the next 'strategic synergy' meeting. You see it isn't 'rational' in any normal sense; accountancy is 'rational' in that sense, and God forbid that I ever do something with my life as dull as accountancy. It's about fun and emotion; Jaguar works on those factors. So does Alfa. BMW tries and sometimes gets it right. Audi bores the tulip out of me, or maybe it's the fat middle managers and provincial sales reps who drive them.

[Old Hack]

The Jag diesel V6 sounds and feels great, whatever the numbers say. I have owned two BMWs and one Mercedes; they were very, very good, but I found them boring. I owned an Alfa 166, which was tulip in many ways, but I enjoyed it on the one day a year that the sun shined, everything worked and the roads were quiet. I wouldn't consider an Audi as they obviously cause such stress to their drivers that they have to be driven 3 centimetres from the person in front, in a swinging from side to side and remonstrating motion. I now own my second Jaguar and it's wonderful. OK, the window rattles a bit, it needs some care and attention from a mechanic every few months but it's still wonderful. I pay a stonking great muck cart full of tax whether I get myself a Prius and save the planet and pay myself a big salary, or I get a completly unreasonable supercharged V8 and pay myself less profit, but pay my tax at the fuel pump. The second option is more attractive to me because that way I get some pleasure in return for the taxes. I also get to sneer at middle managers in Audis, stressing their way to the next 'strategic synergy' meeting. You see it isn't 'rational' in any normal sense; accountancy is 'rational' in that sense, and God forbid that I ever do something with my life as dull as accountancy. It's about fun and emotion; Jaguar works on those factors. So does Alfa. BMW tries and sometimes gets it right. Audi bores the tulip out of me, or maybe it's the fat middle managers and provincial sales reps who drive them.

Couldn't disagree with any of that. Cars press buttons in places you can't explain to non car people. All I was trying to do was correct some facts. Disingenuous or not I'd have your jag over an awful lot of cars out there...

I should add, that the 3.0TTDCI Jag was a better car than the 535d, but the BMW had the better engine.

[Mich the Tester]

Couldn't disagree with any of that. Cars press buttons in places you can't explain to non car people. All I was trying to do was correct some facts. Disingenuous or not I'd have your jag over an awful lot of cars out there...

I should add, that the 3.0TTDCI Jag was a better car than the 535d, but the BMW had the better engine.

Indeed. Buying a Jaguar is not about buying a 'practical' car. If you want 'practical' then there are plenty of options available. Visit a Hyundai dealer or a Kia dealer for some excellent 'practical' cars. If you need to drive through fields then Land Rover, Toyota and Mercedes will sell you the top end mudmunchers, or Suzuki, Kia and so on can sell you a cheap and cheerful 4X4. I just feel Jaguar should stick at what they do well; luxury saloons and beautiful sports cars and leave the school run over the speed bumps of the suburbs to others who can provide that. Keep Jaguar as something stylish to admire, even if that makes a little bit less profit but maintains a long term image that ultimately will make them a lot more money. What's happening here is exactly what was feared when Mr Tata got his hands on Jag; short term profit maximising instead of preserving an image that could provide profits for another 100 years while giving people a great deal of pleasure.

[eek]

Surely there are just expanding their market options to match BMW or Mercedes...

Both offer similar options and you can't accuse them of doing the same.