Panorama - abortion

[formant]

I'm sure some prolifers don't care about children after birth, I'm also sure that some pro-choices don't care about women after they've had their abortion. It's what happens when you put ideology before people.

But to say that's the view of the averagel pro-lifer/choicer is magnificently ignorant.

I know plenty of people on both sides who are concerned with the well-being of all involved. My mother worked in BPAS for a while, and when a lady from LIFE came round, that lady was surprised to see that I was in the creche - she'd been fed the poison that all pro-choicers hate children. Similarly, my mother was surprised to learn that LIFE offers support for women during and after birth, if they choose to keep their child. She'd been fed the poison you apparently have eagerly supped.

Demonisation of the opposing side is common in the abortion debate. Do try to think rationally.

I don't think you can credibly argue that someone who wants a child born at any cost (and that is - unfortunately - the pro-life stance) can give equal consideration to the life that child will go on to lead thereafter. In most circumstances, a bit of token support is nowhere near enough - in fact when a child is truly unwanted it's outright pointless and patronising.

I think it's wonderful when unplanned children end up being born into families that will make things work nonetheless - that will love the child come what may. But that's not something you can guarantee unless you allow people to make that choice rather than forced them into parenthood.

People keep forgetting that pro-choice is just that: pro-choice. Not pro-abortion.

[formant]

I am horrified that anyone would describe the decision about aborting a child made by a couple is only the woman's decision. It is the couple's decision, its the couple's child. If you chose your man properly he will tell you that you have the final decision even though it will affect him deeply.

I generally agree with this sentiment. I do think that the father is often forgotten in these matters (but he also is in a woman's decision to have a child he may not want). But ultimately it's her body and thus has to be her final say. Any decent woman should at least consider her partner's opinion on the matter though.

[NotAllThere]

...People keep forgetting that pro-choice is just that: pro-choice. Not pro-abortion.

Not me. That is why I keep using the phrase "pro-choice".

I don't think you can credibly argue that someone who wants a child born at any cost (and that is - unfortunately - the pro-life stance) can give equal consideration to the life that child will go on to lead thereafter

Why do you think that? Simply stating that you don't think there are any credible arguments is a long long way from showing there aren't any. Or are you a noted authority on the subject?

[mudskipper]

I got myself knocked up at 16 through my own stupidity. My parents wanted me to have an abortion, but I felt it wasn't something I could do. My father at the time wanted nothing to do with me - 'that baby' wasn't living in his house. Social services put me in touch with a pro-life group that provided housing for teenage mums and babies, with support from a 'warden' who lived next door - they were definitely putting their money where their mouth was. As it was, dad came round, I stayed at home, and all ended happily ever after.

I must admit, when my own daughter was 16, I did wonder how I'd feel if she got herself in the same predicament...

[NotAllThere]

...
I must admit, when my own daughter was 16, I did wonder how I'd feel if she got herself in the same predicament...

Would "yay, grandma at 32" have been a option?

I know a chap who knocked up his girlfriend. She wanted an abortion, he wasn't happy about it. In the end, she had the sprog and he brought it up. I don't know if he contacted the CSA for maintenance...

[Waldorf]

Abortion is seen as a form of after the act contraception in my opinion. If you don't want kids take some responsibility for birth control.

A few years ago I recall reading that some of the drop of crime in New York was put down to the increase and availability of abortions. It seems that the number of abortions is higher in dysfunctional families/women, so in effect abortions have reduced the next generation of criminals being born.

I am sure that the process of abortion must be traumatic although it has to be said that some women do see it as a form of contraception. The fact that women like this exist should not prevent the option being available.

[formant]

Why do you think that? Simply stating that you don't think there are any credible arguments is a long long way from showing there aren't any. Or are you a noted authority on the subject?

No, I apply common sense. Putting the child's right to being born above all else unfortunately implies that the life of that child thereafter automatically is of secondary (or no) importance. I'm no doubt judgmental about that attitude.

I could put a sob-story of my own in here (from my family, although not me as such), because I don't think a lot of people here get what growing up is like knowing you're seen as nothing but an 'accident', often referred to as something that ruined your mothers life, something that should have been aborted.
It does make you wonder why on earth you had to be born then and it sure doesn't make you grateful you've been born.
Anyway, I don't think this needs more precise anecdotes.

[MarillionFan]

I got myself knocked up at 16 through my own stupidity. My parents wanted me to have an abortion, but I felt it wasn't something I could do. My father at the time wanted nothing to do with me - 'that baby' wasn't living in his house. Social services put me in touch with a pro-life group that provided housing for teenage mums and babies, with support from a 'warden' who lived next door - they were definitely putting their money where their mouth was. As it was, dad came round, I stayed at home, and all ended happily ever after.

I must admit, when my own daughter was 16, I did wonder how I'd feel if she got herself in the same predicament...

Slapper.

[d000hg]

If the number of 1 in 3 is correct, then you can pretty much assume there's not a huge level of stigma attached.

Why? It's not like you have to tell everyone. Things that are stigmatised can still be prevalent, just secretly.

[mudskipper]

Slapper.