Europe

[sasguru]

The main opposition party was anti-bail out, but was pro European and pro Euro, they just wanted to renegotiate the terms of the bail out. Their viewpoint was that they were committed to the Euro. They may have rejected the bail out but they were preparing to confront the Euro members by keeping the Euro. That was the threat "you can´t stop us keeping the Euro". Of course it was untenable but they were pro-Euro.
.

Complete bollux. They were for partial default and not going with the terms of the Troika bailout.
Implementing this policy would de facto mean leaving the Euro.

[BlasterBates]

Complete bollux. They were for partial default and not going with the terms of the Troika bailout.
Implementing this policy would de facto mean leaving the Euro.

Of course, but if they´d told voters they would leave the Euro they wouldn´t have been voted in.

[BlasterBates]

Exactly the same?

Did I miss the Foot premiership?

Must have been that donkey jacket.

OK James Callahan then, still a sorry outlook though.

[sasguru]

Of course, but if they´d told voters they would leave the Euro they wouldn´t have been voted in.

I don't think the Greeks are that stupid.
There are plenty who thought and still do that leaving the Euro would be better.
They voted for Tsirpas.
If you knew any greeks, you would know they are obsessed by turkey.
They look at Turkey, not in the Euro, with the highest growth rates in Europe for the last 5 years and projected for the next 5 years, see their economy shrinking drastically, such that in a few years it will be smaller than Turkey's and draw the appropriate conclusions.

[DodgyAgent]

-It is perfectly serious. What people like you seem to ignore from history is how the gathering of power without democratic accountability is like a snowball.

But the EU does have democratic accountability, what are MEPs? Just because the average voter in the UK can't be bothered to vote in the European elections doesn't mean that you don't have representation, pretty similar to local and national UK elections. I will admit that the EU needs proper accountability but then again so does every government body, so nothing new there, is there?

- Dictatorships grow in times of economic hardship. People are desperate and will support anyone who shows leadership even if it means sacrificing freedoms. That is exactly what is happening now.

Where? The UK perhaps? With the ever increasing dissatisfaction of the populace in their elected leaders over such subjects as banks, immigration, welfare, ignorance over the EU, etc. the voter is looking increasingly to right wing political parties such as UKIP and the BNP. If any of these start to get any power you can be sure that your rights will be eroded, in particular those that being a member of the EU has introduced.

-What you have talked about in your cliche ridden list is an Orwellian summary of so called benefits (I would prefer to call it propoganda). Just because some of these benefits may be virtuous and seemingly necessary it is automatically assumed that everything that this growing unaccountable self serving bureaucracy does is good for us. Most of us in the UK dont buy this.

Why let facts get in the way of truth? The people in the UK, and other countries it might surprise you to know, don't buy this because they blindly follow the bigoted ramblings of a right wing media. Even those liberal and socialist media outlets buy into this fallacy that (nearly) everything the EU does is bad for your home country, and yes, some aspects of their working practices do seem somewhat idiotic but then again you have to look at the overall, bigger picture but sadly people just pick up on the little things that are reported.

-Clearly the Germans have not learnt their lessons of the past if they did they would put a stop to the pooling of sovereignty amongst nation states.- Which is happening because the EU has destroyed the economies of most of Europe.

Perhaps they have learnt from their past because by having a distribution of sovereingity then past mistakes should not be repeated. Britain doesn't subscribe to that idea as it still believes in the Commonwealth ideal of being a major power of controlling other countries.

- Because people like you (useful idiots if you like) cannot argue these points you are left smearing those who do not believe in your precious superstate with your ridiculous cliches and stupid cartoons along with cries of xenophobia. it is all you can do.

But they are not cliches, they are actual facts of what the EU has done. You in fact asked that very question and there you have your answer but you don't like it.

- So my point about concentration camps is a serious one.

No its not, its an idiotic response that I would only expect from an uneducated British person who still believes that the '**** start at Calais' and I'm sure you're not one of them!

However this is something which the UK runs quite well now (or not, having read reports) with its immigration centres, asylum seeker centers and 'Big Brother' controlled cities!

- A free trading area with common standards of safety and training certifications may be, but the rest of it you and your bureaucrat friends who have never had a proper job in their lives can keep it.

WTF? A proper job? This from someone who is basically a middleman, but buying and selling people and the skills they still have. Ever seen Roots?

(Knocked up in a couple of minutes because I actually have to work)

I see you have ignored the EU accounts and I think if you bothered to read about the EU then you will see that MEPs only approve legislation that is drawn up by the unelected European commission. Saying the EU needs proper accountability is not good enough. It should actually have proper accountability.

Your lists of what the EU does is what it should do (much of which is undesirable). What it actually does is something you seem to ignore.

As usual anyone who dares question the great and mighty EU is branded a bigot and xenophobe. I am not the one who is rambling here.

The commonwealth is a free trading area with certain levels of freedom of movement. There is no central government and no central currency and any country can leave when it wants to. The EU can learn a great deal from the commonwealth.

If the EU cannot get the "little things" right how can it get anything right? -

Whatever Britain does good or bad it is Britains decision and not the EUs. if we make bad decisions then we can kick out our government.

What we do have in the UK that the EU does not have is a CUK of our very own. I dont know what your hysterical ramblings are seeking to achieve but you and your EU friends can keep your hands off CUK. If you do not like it why not set up a German anti UK propoganda forum of your own?

[sasguru]

Was reading a bit about Turkey. Growing faster than China - 8%.
The ironic thing is that the Europeans rejected their accession, when they thought they were all smug and rich.
Turks are probably thinking "Phew, lucky escape"

[DodgyAgent]

Was reading a bit about Turkey. Growing faster than China - 8%.
The ironic thing is that the Europeans rejected their accession, when they thought they were all smug and rich.
Turks are probably thinking "Phew, lucky escape"

They could join the EU to slow their growth rate down.

[Troll]

Was reading a bit about Turkey. Growing faster than China - 8%.
The ironic thing is that the Europeans rejected their accession, when they thought they were all smug and rich.
Turks are probably thinking "Phew, lucky escape"

They rejected their accession because they didn't want what in the words of Jaques Delors is a Christian club, overrun by Muslim hordes from the East

[The Spartan]

BBC News - Could airport hub capacity see UK lose out to rivals?

Speaking of Turkey I read this yesterday about the rise in passengers it's seen since 2002 when it was 10 million to now 45 million in 2012.

[sasguru]

They rejected their accession because they didn't want what in the words of Jaques Delors is a newly poor Christian club, overrun by newly rich Muslim hordes from the East

FTFY