Europe

[Brussels Slumdog]

So what is it the result of?

This is the result of comming from a country where welfare payments do not exist. I am white and born in the UK but went to school in South Africa. Nothing to do with colour.
You know what poverty is when people knock on your door asking for a slice of bread and jam.
My Grand father felt ashamed that he had to ask for a mortage and I would feel ashamed asking for welfare

[formant]

it is nothing to do with per capita it is to do with the overall size of the UK economy.

Right, believe whatever you wish to believe. My question still stands - if we're so mighty and powerful, why don't we have greater influence within the EU? Why would we have more influence from the outside?

[DodgyAgent]

We come back to the point about the split. Whilst David Cameron is in charge who is committed to Europe this won´t wash with UKIP voters.

That´s what I mean either they go full on in on Europe and get Labour voters or the go full on out of Europe in which case they would more or less get the UKIP support back.

What are you voting for when you vote Conservative pro-Europe or anti-Europe?

In the end being split will deter a sufficient number of voters who don´t like the unclear position.

I do not know who I will vote for, but I do believe that this Europe question needs to be dealt with whether Cameron is there or not. Tory Eurosceptics will not vote labour or lib dem but the will vote UKIP

[Troll]

This is the result of comming from a country where welfare payments do not exist. I am white and born in the UK but went to school in South Africa. Nothing to do with colour.
You know what poverty is when people knock on your door asking for a slice of bread and jam.
My Grand father felt ashamed that he had to ask for a mortage and I would feel ashamed asking for welfare

That wasn't anything to do with colour - it was a question about the reasons why Africa is a perennial basket case despite having billions in Aid thrown at it- whereas Asian countries appear to have lifted themselves out of poverty by hard work and endeavour

[DodgyAgent]

Right, believe whatever you wish to believe. My question still stands - if we're so mighty and powerful, why don't we have greater influence within the EU? Why would we have more influence from the outside?

Why indeed?
The point is that by being outside of the EU the UK will be able to decide through its democratic system how we wish to influence Europe

[formant]

Why indeed?
The point is that by being outside of the EU the UK will be able to decide through its democratic system how we wish to influence Europe

That's not answering the question. If the EU isn't doing what we want now, why would they do so when we're no longer a member? What would be their incentive?

As "big" as you may think we are, the remaining EU will still be a lot bigger. And would thus remain in the driving seat of any negotiation.

[BlasterBates]

I find it interesting, the entire expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe may well have not occured without the UK.

Germany said we want to unite and Thatcher said OK but you let all them Eastern European countries in the EU, and Helmut Kohl said OK.

The UK doesn´t have the Euro, doesn´t have Schengen even though all other EU countries do and didn´t have to have the European directive on working hours. There will be no financial transaction tax. EU countries can slap in visa restrictions against any EU country because EU law allows it. There are and always has been plenty of "special restrictions" within the Eu on the movement of people. Countries outside the EU also contribute to the EU budget and are helping prop up the Euro.

Can anyone explain exactly what the UK can additionally opt out of, sensibly that they couldn´t negotiate within the EU?

[sasguru]

That wasn't anything to do with colour - it was a question about the reasons why Africa is a perennial basket case

Is it? It seems demographic trends, the rise in the educated middle class, improved political stability and decline in birth rates means you are wrong, as usual:

Daily chart: Africa's impressive growth | The Economist
The hopeful continent: Africa rising | The Economist
Africa is hooked on growth - FT.com

I will be look at my portfolio to see if I can cash in on this.

[stevejohnson]

That wasn't anything to do with colour - it was a question about the reasons why Africa is a perennial basket case despite having billions in Aid thrown at it- whereas Asian countries appear to have lifted themselves out of poverty by hard work and endeavour

Capitalism.

[DodgyAgent]

That's not answering the question. If the EU isn't doing what we want now, why would they do so when we're no longer a member? What would be their incentive?

As "big" as you may think we are, the remaining EU will still be a lot bigger. And would thus remain in the driving seat of any negotiation.

If the UK cannot influence Europe to its own ends then what is the point of being in the EU? Is it that we should be in it "for the sake of it"? to be cool and forward thinking? Is this why we should surrender our sovereignty (which is where this whole thing is headed).
By staying out we can negotiate our own position and if the governments decision prove to be unpopular with the electorate then we change the government and re negotiate those terms.