Flat-rate State Pension - Opinions?

[formant]

Because its far cheaper to give everyone x rather than topping it up which costs a £1bn for admin on top and still doesn't reach many who should get the money),

The state pension should give everyone enough to live on without form filling (as an aside Age Concern are brilliant at filling the forms in) as that would save money (its the reason why winter fuel and travel cards are universal benefits).

At the end of the day this is supposed to be a universal pension for those who reached the age at which a significant majority of people are unable to work. Does it really matter what people did prior to reaching that age?

A pension is for those who've worked for it and made their contributions, there's a welfare system already in place for those who don't. I'm all for providing people with the bare minimum to live with by default, but when people who choose to have career breaks (or no career at all) or choose to remain in unprofitable self-employment, I don't agree with directly subsidising their pensions by charging everyone else more and making all of us work for longer. And in some cases that's quite a large increase (for those on final salary pension schemes) - my neighbours, a nurse and a firefighter, are both affected. Why anyone would wish to screw over those professions in particular remains a mystery to me.
In my household it's just my other half (university lecturer).

[Doggy Styles]

Because its far cheaper to give everyone x rather than topping it up which costs a £1bn for admin on top and still doesn't reach many who should get the money),

The state pension should give everyone enough to live on without form filling (as an aside Age Concern are brilliant at filling the forms in) as that would save money (its the reason why winter fuel and travel cards are universal benefits).

At the end of the day this is supposed to be a universal pension for those who reached the age at which a significant majority of people are unable to work. Does it really matter what people did prior to reaching that age?

WHS

A universal base pension level is cheaper for taxpayers, far easier to administer, and a dependable safety net for people becoming unable to do much about their circumstances.

Most older people haven't got much other money and will be on a fixed income for the rest of their lives. £144 a week won't exactly provide a luxurious existence.

I'm just surprised this is coming from the Tories and not the Labour party.

[formant]

A universal base pension level is cheaper for taxpayers

So if this is so much cheaper, why take the money directly from nurses, firefighters, police, etc and increase everyone's pension age to fund it?

TBH, I would have preferred an equal tax increase for all, rather than just grossly disadvantaging some of the already relatively poorly paid public sector workers.

Also, if on benefits you're expected to live of £71/week, why are you suddenly deserving of more just cause you're old? Don't get me wrong, I don't think £71/week is really livable, but I don't see the justification in paying more based solely on age (as this is obviously only a benefit to those who wouldn't have normally worked enough to truly qualify for that same pension).

[The Spartan]

TBH, I would have preferred an equal tax increase for all, rather than just grossly disadvantaging some of the already relatively poorly paid public sector workers.

Poorly paid? hasn't this myth been dispelled already

[eek]

So if this is so much cheaper, why take the money directly from nurses, firefighters, police, etc and increase everyone's pension age to fund it?

TBH, I would have preferred an equal tax increase for all, rather than just grossly disadvantaging some of the already relatively poorly paid public sector workers.

One reason is that attacking those lucky enough to get a final salary pension scheme is a no lose proposition. Thanks to Mr Brown its only the public sector who has such schemes and if anyone complains about their tax treatment the general public is likely to say but you still have one and we don't.

Considering the amount of money I would need to get an annuity paying the equivalent of my wife's pittance of a final salary pension I don't think anyone is going to stand alongside them as they protest.

[RasputinDude]

choose to remain in unprofitable self-employment

I'm interested to know what you think the alternative is. Let's say that you've got a tradesman - an electrician for example - who is a trained electrician, fully certified etc but can't find sufficient work to live off because the work just isn't there.

What do you expect that person to do in order to make their self-employment profitable?

[lilelvis2000]

ANother mess our children will be lumbered with.

[formant]

I'm interested to know what you think the alternative is. Let's say that you've got a tradesman - an electrician for example - who is a trained electrician, fully certified etc but can't find sufficient work to live off because the work just isn't there.

What do you expect that person to do in order to make their self-employment profitable?

What we're all expected to do in that sort of case - broaden skills-range, relocate, re-train, etc.

[DimPrawn]

I'm interested to know what you think the alternative is. Let's say that you've got a tradesman - an electrician for example - who is a trained electrician, fully certified etc but can't find sufficient work to live off because the work just isn't there.

What do you expect that person to do in order to make their self-employment profitable?

Emigrate to Australia. Tonnes of work for skilled trades there.

[NotAllThere]

...Not sure why people who choose not to work/ have gaps in their employment should be entitle to the same pension as someone who's paid more tax during his/her life.

FTFY.

NI contributions are just at tax. There is no pot. People drawing their pensions are being paid out of the tax gathered now.

You might as well complain that people who are high earners and therefore have paid more tax than middle earners will get the same state pension.