Maybe we should take Eugenics more seriously?

[Ignis Fatuus]

I also like lefties who embrace and encourage capitalism as a force for good. Lefties who make a comfortable living from capitalist activities and then criticise capitalism I cannot abide (ie contractors with this viewpoint)

'Scuse me, I'm a contractor but I do not make a living from capitalist activities. That would be if I used my capital to make other people work for me. The fact that I sell my labour in a market that happens to be capitalist-run does not make me a capitalist.

[Robinho]

The weakness of anarcho-capitalism (from a capitalist viewpoint) is that it does not restrain collective bargaining and industrial action. These necessarily weaken the position of capital against labour and prevent true price discovery of labour by artificially (in market terms) putting upward pressure on wages and related costs.

This is where you are going wrong though. Capitalism doesn't mean a system designed to favour people with capital. It is a system which allows you to freely have capital. You are describing a feudal or serfdom system where landowners can exploit the peasants who cannot own land themselves.

[BrilloPad]

'Scuse me, I'm a contractor but I do not make a living from capitalist activities. That would be if I used my capital to make other people work for me. The fact that I sell my labour in a market that happens to be capitalist-run does not make me a capitalist.

A chap I worked with announced one night to the traders that he was a communist. Someone asked him how he could be a communist while working at the heart of capitalism. "I said I was a communist. Not stupid".

[DodgyAgent]

But thats the problem in a nutshell. The "economies of the world" are NOT affluent - it's all based on projection and BS from the financial sector.

Ok I will word it in terms that you will understand.

Would the economies of the world be as poor as they are now or poorer?

[sasguru]

Ok I will word it in terms that you will understand.

Would the economies of the world be as poor as they are now or poorer?

Considering the West is mainly bankrupt and only survives by oweing creditor nations trillions of dollars, a situation facilitated by liberalisation of the financial markets, I think you can answer your own question.

Point is if banks did what they were meant to do over the centuries and finance enterprise, we'd all be better off.

[sasguru]

the germans this and the germans that...blah,,blah

We should learn from probably the most succesful large economy in the world in terms of delivering to its citizens a good quality of life.

[DodgyAgent]

Considering the West is mainly bankrupt and only survives by oweing creditor nations trillions of dollars, a situation facilitated by liberalisation of the financial markets, I think you can answer your own question.

Point is if banks did what they were meant to do over the centuries and finance enterprise, we'd all be better off.

The cliches are back

You are copping out. Your argument goes along the lines that if we had not invented the motor car then no one would have been killed in road accidents.

It may be that the west is in hoc (cliche) but why is this such a bad thing? and how would it have been better if the liberalisation of the financial markets not been allowed. You also neatly avoid explaining whether or how the financial markets should have been controlled by the governments.

Correct me by all means but the last government were so busy borrowing and spending to further their own wealth and power that they completely ignored (or in my view encouraged) the excesses of the financial markets.

[sasguru]

The cliches are back

You are copping out. Your argument goes along the lines that if we had not invented the motor car then no one would have been killed in road accidents.

It may be that the west is in hoc (cliche) but why is this such a bad thing? and how would it have been better if the liberalisation of the financial markets not been allowed. You also neatly avoid explaining whether or how the financial markets should have been controlled by the governments.

Correct me by all means but the last government were so busy borrowing and spending to further their own wealth and power that they completely ignored (or in my view encouraged) the excesses of the financial markets.

I don't think you understand the meaning of cliche.
A fact is not necessarily a cliche
The indebtedness of the West is a matter of record. And its not necessarily bad to have debt provided you can pay it back by growing your economy. But Italy, Spain et. al cannot pay back their debt.
And now that the froth of financial services has abated, neither can we.

If the liberalisation of markets had not been allowed, perhaps we wouldn't have had the illusion of wealth that the City and Wall Street seemed to create over the last 25 years.
Financial services were seen as an alterntive to manufacturing by Thatcher and our current situation shows how deluded that was.

[Robinho]

We should learn from probably the most succesful large economy in the world in terms of delivering to its citizens a good quality of life.

The USA?

[BrilloPad]

If the liberalisation of markets had not been allowed, perhaps we wouldn't have had the illusion of wealth that the City and Wall Street seemed to create over the last 25 years.

its been downhill since we went off the gold standard.