Maybe we should take Eugenics more seriously?

[Scoobos]

Do you - capitalism is not a single thing.

There are many many flavours.

What we have occuring in the UK, following the US - is a move towards Corporate Capitalism, which is what I believe causes people to be happy to just earn and consume mindlessly and think that's how success is measured; and that everyone who doesn't think this way is in some way an enemy.

If your economic model merges with your social strategy (I personally believe this equates to Tory) then you have problems when the economic model puts little value on ethics, morality or society - and maximum value on hoarding / profiteering.

There is a middle ground.

[Robinho]

Do I make a living through my labour or through my capital?

Who owns your company, you or the state? You, so it is capitalism.

[Old Greg]

Who owns your company, you or the state? You, so it is capitalism.

So are workers' cooperatives capitalist?

And you forgot to answer my last question.

[Scoobos]

Who owns your company, you or the state? You, so it is capitalism.

No No No.... You are making differentiations based on State CAPITALISM, vs private CAPITALISM - they are both capitalism.

I'd think you'll find most like the concept of trade, money , private ownership etcs - but what I don't like is the concept of control of trade, money and private ownership by a select few - due to over abuse of Corporate Capitalism.

Here instead of the state owning everything, the corporation does - equally bad 'mkay.

[Robinho]

No No No.... You are making differentiations based on State CAPITALISM, vs private CAPITALISM - they are both capitalism.

You do not have enough information to conclude that.

[Scoobos]

Who owns your company, you or the state? You, so it is capitalism.

how so, this statement says:

IF YOU own your company == Capitalism
If THE STATE own it == Not Capitalism.

Simply not true.

[Robinho]

So are workers' cooperatives capitalist?

And you forgot to answer my last question.

The last question is irrelevant. Labour is still capitalist. You are voluntarily selling your services for remuneration.

[Robinho]

how so, this statement says:

IF YOU own your company == Capitalism
If THE STATE own it == Not Capitalism.

Simply not true.

No it says if you own your company = Capitalism
If the State owns your company = Inconclusive

It's like if i say i'm thinking of a number, the number isn't 2. Does that mean the number is 1? No.

[Old Greg]

To be fair it is both complex and nuanced. Capitalism generally required private ownership of the means of production, but it can involve state ownership. Also, private ownership of the means of production is not necessarily capitalist - a worker's cooperative is typically an example.

The key is the relationship between capital and labour. If your income is derived from capital, either through employing people and profiting from the surplus value of their labour, or through investment in such an enterprise, then that is capitalism. Many forms of speculation can also be seen as capitalism. This is why fascism is the ultimate form of capitalism. It removes the restraints of democracy and trade unionism to the power of capital.

[Old Greg]

The last question is irrelevant. Labour is still capitalist. You are voluntarily selling your services for remuneration.

So what you are really saying is that I live in a capitalist society.