Question for socialists

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy seems to be in love with a free market capitalistic utopia which is as much a dream as anything socialists have managed to come up with.

So do you. If you stop and think about it you are the living embodiment of total capitalism.

[Mich the Tester]

Dodgy seems to be in love with a free market capitalistic utopia which is as much a dream as anything socialists have managed to come up with.

A 'free market utopia' where people work all their lives only to let the state take away their money when they die instead of letting them hand it to their children. Because of course the state knows better.

[doodab]

So do you. If you stop and think about it you are the living embodiment of total capitalism.

Dogmatic claptrap. You are dogmatic and delusional. How exactly am I the living embodiment of capitalism?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Dodgy seems to be in love with a free market capitalistic utopia which is as much a dream as anything socialists have managed to come up with.

Why is it a dream? If people have no fear of wealth or success and are properly educated then why should it be a dream?

[DodgyAgent]

Dogmatic claptrap. You are dogmatic and delusional. How exactly am I the living embodiment of capitalism?

You are a contractor. You sell your services to whoever you want. You are one of the top earners in the world and you pay far less tax than people who are employed. Your value is almost entirely determined by market forces. You negotiate your own pay and conditions. There is no greater example of selfishness within the context of business or the workplace.

Dont get me wrong I approve wholeheartedly of this system of work and I think more people should be able to work in this way.

You can call it what you want, and whether it is a dogmatic view or not your are part of a privileged group of people.

[DodgyAgent]

Why is it a dream? If people have no fear of wealth or success and are properly educated then why should it be a dream?

My own view is that EVERYBODY should be given the opportunity to make money and enjoy high standards of living,. That they should not be held back by the controlling monopolies of the state as most of the population of this country are. I also believe that the challenge we face is providing those who are not driven by money are given the highest standards of service in education, health and safety of environment.

[Mich the Tester]

My own view is that EVERYBODY should be given the opportunity to make money and enjoy high standards of living,. That they should not be held back by the controlling monopolies of the state as most of the population of this country are. I also believe that the challenge we face is providing those who are not driven by money are given the highest standards of service in education, health and safety of environment. And that I should recieve a 21.5% cut of all expenditure required to provide this.

ftfy

Dodgy, why do I have to keep doing your job for you?

[Old Greg]

You are a contractor. You sell your services to whoever you want. You are one of the top earners in the world and you pay far less tax than people who are employed. Your value is almost entirely determined by market forces. You negotiate your own pay and conditions. There is no greater example of selfishness within the context of business or the workplace.

Dont get me wrong I approve wholeheartedly of this system of work and I think more people should be able to work in this way.

You can call it what you want, and whether it is a dogmatic view or not your are part of a privileged group of people.

You are talking about enterprise, not capitalism. Capitalists make a living through capital, rather that work. Most contractors make their living through work. They may be privileged workers but they are not capitalists.

[doodab]

Why is it a dream? If people have no fear of wealth or success and are properly educated then why should it be a dream?

Because of human nature. Unfettered free market capitalism is no more going to result in utopia than communism.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

My own view is that EVERYBODY should be given the opportunity to make money and enjoy high standards of living,. That they should not be held back by the controlling monopolies of the state as most of the population of this country are. I also believe that the challenge we face is providing those who are not driven by money are given the highest standards of service in education, health and safety of environment.

I agree. However, I think that many people in this country do naturally have a drive to be successful but it has been suppressed by a state driven guilt trip. I have give talks in schools about running a business etc and one of the questions I start with is 'someone tell me something they're good at' (with the idea of exploring the idea of how their talent could be used in business). Initially I was invited to private schools and this approach was great - the pupils were engaged, eloquent, opinionated and, even at 14/15, had a good idea of where their lives are going. When I tried the same approach in a state school the response was - it took me many minutes of questioning for one of the pupils to venture the opinion that no-one could tell me what they were good at as that would be considered to be 'arrogance' - her peers agreed with her. THAT is what is wrong with socialism - not the question of equality (let's face it, we're human beings - it's not going to happen) it's the demise of the individual in favour of the collective.