Question for socialists

[EternalOptimist]

I meant want a better as opposed to a perfect society.

oh dear. hands up all those who dont want a better society

much as i respect you og, i think you need to bone up on 'sanctimonious'

[d000hg]

Socialism flies in the face of human nature as XOG argues so eloquently - better than I do Socialism can only work if it is forced upon us and it is an entirely negative ideology

While I agree with you that it is contrary to normal human nature, I don't agree it is unworkable.

They are not actually socialist in the proper sense, but look at the Amish. They believe in working hard for its own sake, not to get rich. They believe in looking after each other and putting people before wealth, etc.
I'd argue it's ONLY when a community is actually that - a real community - that socialist ideals can be realised, because in that situation it is happening from within rather than being foisted from above.

[Old Greg]

oh dear. hands up all those who dont want a better society

much as i respect you og, i think you need to bone up on 'sanctimonious'

Tsk. I was identifying Utopianism as an outdated viewpoint, that's all.

[DodgyAgent]

While I agree with you that it is contrary to normal human nature, I don't agree it is unworkable.

They are not actually socialist in the proper sense, but look at the Amish. They believe in working hard for its own sake, not to get rich. They believe in looking after each other and putting people before wealth, etc.
I'd argue it's ONLY when a community is actually that - a real community - that socialist ideals can be realised, because in that situation it is happening from within rather than being foisted from above.

So why dont more people go and join the Amish? because the Amish "control" and "manipulate" through fear and ignorance. And if the Amish are such paragons of virtuous living why dont socialists go and join them?

[DodgyAgent]

Tsk. I was identifying Utopianism as an outdated viewpoint, that's all.

I would reckon that my Utopia (earniong 20% of what EVERYONE earns - just in case you ask ) would not be the same as your Utopia.

[Old Greg]

I would reckon that my Utopia (earniong 20% of what EVERYONE earns - just in case you ask ) would not be the same as your Utopia.

Because I don't believe in Utopia.

[DodgyAgent]

Because I don't believe in Utopia.

I do, so please sign me a standing order for 20% of everything you earn

[BrilloPad]

I do, so please sign me a standing order for 20% of everything you earn

20% is a bit low for you isn't it?

[Old Greg]

I do, so please sign me a standing order for 20% of everything you earn

Convince me.

[d000hg]

So why dont more people go and join the Amish?

Because most people don't like the other stuff they do such as give up electricity.

And if the Amish are such paragons of virtuous living why dont socialists go and join them?

Because socialists aren't generally fans of religion, which is (ironically I suppose) the glue which enables the Amish society to actually work - it's because their core belief system is different that they are happy to work hard without material reward.

I'm not a socialist and I'm not suggesting Amishness (?) is the way forward, but I do think it is one example where more socialist principles have been working for centuries.