WIPRO

[SussexSeagull]

Not a good post.

You recruitment friend would have gone somewhere else to make his millions.

The beauty of capitalism is that resources shift to where they are most needed. At the moment there are too many IT people in the world, so rates will go down and people will leave.
Trying to legislate this away never has a good result.

Yes, because capitalism is perfect in every way and needs no reform whatsoever.

[bobspud]

Not a good post.

You recruitment friend would have gone somewhere else to make his millions.

The beauty of capitalism is that resources shift to where they are most needed. At the moment there are too many IT people in the world, so rates will go down and people will leave.
Trying to legislate this away never has a good result.

What do you mean trying to legislate? The law is already there. We have a very obvious set of laws that prevent people from outside the EU rocking up here and starting work... That is unless you are a multinational in which case you can have a redundancy program running to clear your UK bench while you actively tout Indians and Czechs for your project work vacancies because they are cheaper... Why the fsck should I be in a position where a project manager can offer me an engineer for £200 a day when I know that £150 of that will be "hotel expenses" that he will never see because he's sat in a rental house with as many others as the company could get in there??? But don't worry the upstanding morons at the UK border agency have sprung into action!!!! Have they raided Wipro or Cap Gemini to ensure the proper treatment of the visa system? No they were conducting an inspection of my local Indian takeaway instead. WTF?? Why the fsck are they bothering the restaurant owner about who's in the kitchen? Its not like Gavin the unemployed twit in the local pub can compete for a newly opened job as Head chef at the Indian takeaway... He can't even cook Indian food.

Meanwhile we have an entire draft of newly qualified grads sat on their arses because its better to bring a slave over from the next offshore miracle pool of talent and abuse their rights to equal pay and conditions while they make a truly crap job of the work we give them...

As for making his millions elsewhere... Wow what total bulltulip! How many people do you know that have said "I know I am gonna start a business but Im not doing it in this country, Im off to China or India to do it... Yep that should be a much easier ride when I don't speak the language or have any contacts..." dream on... By the way there are far more accountants and solicitors on this planet but you don't see them shipped round the globe to work for peanuts. Or maybe thats the next big BOOM industry... offshored legal battery hens to do your legal work cheaper than a qualified UK brief...

Rajkishore Associates - Offshore Legal Outsourcing

Damn I missed the boat

[tractor]

..

Not a good post.

You recruitment friend would have gone somewhere else to make his millions.

The beauty of capitalism is that resources shift to where they are most needed. At the moment there are too many IT people in the world, so rates will go down and people will leave.
Trying to legislate this away never has a good result.

LOL even with my shaky hand I can wield a scalpel.

Doesn't make me a bleedin doctor though

[ChimpMaster]

LOL even with my shaky hand I can wield a scalpel.

Doesn't make me a bleedin doctor though

Well said.

In any case, Phillip, capitalism is dead. Long live capitalism.

[malvolio]

This - My 8 step guide to a multi-billion pound business | Contractor Accountants - may amuse people on a damp Friday morning...

[KentPhilip]

What do you mean trying to legislate? The law is already there. We have a very obvious set of laws that prevent people from outside the EU rocking up here and starting work... That is unless you are a multinational in which case you can have a redundancy program running to clear your UK bench while you actively tout Indians and Czechs for your project work vacancies because they are cheaper... Why the fsck should I be in a position where a project manager can offer me an engineer for £200 a day when I know that £150 of that will be "hotel expenses" that he will never see because he's sat in a rental house with as many others as the company could get in there??? But don't worry the upstanding morons at the UK border agency have sprung into action!!!! Have they raided Wipro or Cap Gemini to ensure the proper treatment of the visa system? No they were conducting an inspection of my local Indian takeaway instead. WTF?? Why the fsck are they bothering the restaurant owner about who's in the kitchen? Its not like Gavin the unemployed twit in the local pub can compete for a newly opened job as Head chef at the Indian takeaway... He can't even cook Indian food.

Meanwhile we have an entire draft of newly qualified grads sat on their arses because its better to bring a slave over from the next offshore miracle pool of talent and abuse their rights to equal pay and conditions while they make a truly crap job of the work we give them...

As for making his millions elsewhere... Wow what total bulltulip! How many people do you know that have said "I know I am gonna start a business but Im not doing it in this country, Im off to China or India to do it... Yep that should be a much easier ride when I don't speak the language or have any contacts..." dream on... By the way there are far more accountants and solicitors on this planet but you don't see them shipped round the globe to work for peanuts. Or maybe thats the next big BOOM industry... offshored legal battery hens to do your legal work cheaper than a qualified UK brief...

Rajkishore Associates - Offshore Legal Outsourcing

Damn I missed the boat

When you have many indians willing to do a job for £50/day, why should anyone pay more?
All that money that the end client saves can be used to hire new UK graduates.
If, conversely, they had hired you instead at £400/day or whatever, they'd be no money left, and you would probably have bought tulip from Hong Kong with it, sending the money offshore in any case.

[SussexSeagull]

When you have many indians willing to do a job for £50/day, why should anyone pay more?
All that money that the end client saves can be used to hire new UK graduates.
If, conversely, they had hired you instead at £400/day or whatever, they'd be no money left, and you would probably have bought tulip from Hong Kong with it, sending the money offshore in any case.

Nice in theory but off shoring has hit graduate recruitment (and indeed permanent jobs) at least as much as contractor's prospects.

No one expects companies to do anything other than try to increase profits. The purpose of the ICT system is to bring in skills not available in this country, not undercut the local workforce.

[bobspud]

When you have many indians willing to do a job for £50/day, why should anyone pay more?
All that money that the end client saves can be used to hire new UK graduates.
If, conversely, they had hired you instead at £400/day or whatever, they'd be no money left, and you would probably have bought tulip from Hong Kong with it, sending the money offshore in any case.

As already stated, no one wants the grads for the junior work any more. They have little need for them. We had grads from the fast track pool on my last project, what were they doing? Project office work. I asked what else they had done oh project office work they replied.

I am perfectly happy to spend a few grand on tulip from hong kong because I am safe in the knowledge that I have spent some 60k on local trade while I have been reconverting my barn. I am due to spend another 20k next year locally in the same way. When the Indians have destroyed the markets and I am forced to work for nothing I will no longer give my government 50k a year in corporation tax and vat. And my spending power will diminish to zero. How has that helped?

An amazing pointless fact for you. The cloth for the suits that I buy from Hong kong is still produced in England so even when I offshore my money I find a way to help some local businesses even if it's not saville row.

As I previously said: I have no problems taking work off shore, where the worker carries out the job in his own economy on commensurate pay.

[MarillionFan]

Whenever I get a call from an agent with an Asian accent I hang up as even the agents are so bad I have no idea what the f they are on about.

.

I was once offered a job with Tata for the NHS program. One year Fixed Contract.

Interviewed up in London. Bob 1 - Manager, then Bob 2- Senior Manager etc all the way up the chain etc to a director. 5 Interviews, all the same and with each previous person in the room. Very odd.

It was a good deal at the time(8 years ago). Fixed term contract £80k, expenses plus 30 days paid holiday. I was required to set up a team and training course to teach new Bobs on all aspects of GP2GP messaging and legacy healthcare systems. They planned to fast track people through to gain my skills and then undercut for those skills in the UK.

I declined their kind offer.

[KentPhilip]

As already stated, no one wants the grads for the junior work any more. They have little need for them. We had grads from the fast track pool on my last project, what were they doing? Project office work. I asked what else they had done oh project office work they replied.

I am perfectly happy to spend a few grand on tulip from hong kong because I am safe in the knowledge that I have spent some 60k on local trade while I have been reconverting my barn. I am due to spend another 20k next year locally in the same way. When the Indians have destroyed the markets and I am forced to work for nothing I will no longer give my government 50k a year in corporation tax and vat. And my spending power will diminish to zero. How has that helped?

An amazing pointless fact for you. The cloth for the suits that I buy from Hong kong is still produced in England so even when I offshore my money I find a way to help some local businesses even if it's not saville row.

As I previously said: I have no problems taking work off shore, where the worker carries out the job in his own economy on commensurate pay.

I suppose we in the IT community are unlucky that our industry has been targeted by the indians to do low cost work. But we have to accept that it has, and work out the ramifications of it.
The indians are hard working and low paid. Granted many are no good, but they are learning and getting much better all the time.
More people gain by having the Indians work here than lose. The indians gain, their British customers gain by saving money. It's only us contractors who lose by finding that we are out of work or have to drastically cut our rates. But how is it fair for them to have to work for much less than us?

"I have no problems taking work off shore, where the worker carries out the job in his own economy on commensurate pay"
Most of the work done by the Wipro indians is done in India, on Indian pay rates. So how is that different?

"When the Indians have destroyed the markets and I am forced to work for nothing I will no longer give my government 50k a year in corporation tax and vat." No but your former customers will pay extra tax on the extra profits they have made from the savings generated by engaging cheaper labour.

ITC is simply protectionism. Throughout history protectionism has never helped an economy to thrive.