Just what we need, more immigrants!

[NotAllThere]

I'm an immigrant. Do you object to my presence?

I'm an expat. You can have my place.

[shaunbhoy]

Name a single way immigration has 'enriched' Britain?*

Even those of us whose families have been here for centuries are largely descended from a mixture of Romans, Celts, Normans, Angles, Saxons, Vikings and others.
The mix of that complex gene pool is what formed the backbone of the relatively small nation that ruled most of the world 150 years ago. To me that is a good thing, because the nation evolved into something whose achievements across a huge range of endeavours became greater than the sum of the parts.
Latterly, some might argue that we have topped up this particular gene pool with "Whoops stickers", but the overriding principle seems to me to indicate that the right sort of immigration can be of benefit.
In short, the variety of possible beneficial outputs is likely to be increased if you also increase the composite ingredients.
You go too far the other way and you get cousins marrying and breeding. If you want that then try West Virginia!

[Sysman]

Really, one of the sandwich shops I regularly used in the city was run by Polish and they just looked through me with a distant stare like somebody had stolen their souls. Fast service though!

A former colleague did a stint in either Yugoslavia or Romania before the breakup of the Eastern Block. At 6:30 in the morning the streets were full of folks walking to work, but it was totally silent. Absolutely no one was talking or smiling. A very different culture indeed.

I'm also not so convinced by the legitimacy of the vast number of non-english speaking people in my home town. Its not exactly a prime holiday destination so most probably live there now, and these people are getting on the bus with bags of shopping speaking in their native tongue to their kids rather than english....that annoys me.

I really cannot get annoyed by that. If you were living abroad wouldn't you want to make sure that your kids (if you have any) were fluent in English? An extra language is an asset.

[cnch]

Yes.

In principle. yes

I suggest we all look at our own origins before we send all 'immigrants' back to whence they came.

In my opinion immigrants from East Europe have made a very positive contribution to our society. Basically, they have a good work ethic and inetgrate well. Not so sure about the influx of migrants from lawless 3rd world fleapits like Somalia though, that's a whole different ballgame.

Then tell your Paddy brethren to go home and send your Paddy sisters over instead!

I'm an expat. You can have my place.

Thank you for the kind offer. Are you giving it to me for free?


I see the logic in controlling immigration, and kind of struggle with the number of people working under 'HSMP' when there aren't enough jobs. I do however have a serious humanitarian issue with refusing people entry who are just trying to find work to feed their families in their homeland. I've met quite a few people crossing deserts, etc, having forked out several thousand pounds in countries where the average wage is £100 (if they're lucky) to try and find a better life. Who am I to say - no, let you and your family starve.

[CheeseSlice]

I really cannot get annoyed by that. If you were living abroad wouldn't you want to make sure that your kids (if you have any) were fluent in English? An extra language is an asset.

Fair enough I suppose.. its not 'steam coming out of my ears' annoyed, but just quietly miffed is all

I'm just a lot happier when I see properly assimilated immigrants who have grown up in our society, and talk with the likes of a full-on cockney or geordie accent...

[xoggoth]

After the entirely inconsistent "doing low paid jobs British workers don't want to do" and "paying future pensions of an aging population" the argument I love most for its sheer illogicality is "why complain when the UK is made up of previous immigrants?"

Well, true enough, but every significant migrant wave we have had was a major disaster in terms of social cohesion and long term conflict. To listen to this argument you would think that the Saxons and the Vikings or the Saxons and the Normans got along famously. That the Huegenots, Jews and Irish were welcomed with open arms and accomodated with no problems whatever. Isn't it time we stopped citing some of history's worst mistakes as justification for new ones?

A sense of nationality and common culture is a natural and a positive thing, it gives a sense of belonging. We are more willing to share what we have with those like us or who, at the very least, share many of our values and do not hold viewpoints that are in total opposition to what we believe in. There are divisions in any single society, between left and right for example, but they do not compare with the divisions between ourselves and some attitudes in the third world. On the rights of women, on gays and sexual freedom generally, on the role of religion in government for example.

People will cite the history of some nationalist movements but in a more global world, with international laws, with the UN and other international bodies and a far greater balance of international power, a new Hitler is unlikely and we do not need to so denigrate the perfectly normal human need to be with others like ourselves. Race as properly defined is not the issue, culture is. To demand respect for attitudes that are completely at odds with those we have been raised with, to demand we live side by side with those who hold them, to be expected to hold our tongues when the direction of our society is being compromised does not reduce racial tensions, it increases them.

We would have a better and more tolerant world if we were all pursued our separate paths and ideals, would have more mutual respect if we had less forced juxtaposition that produces so many conflicts of interest. Mass immigration, except for those properly checked to be economically useful, law abiding and, most importantly, accepting of our values is a disaster and it always has been.

What matters most is reality. There is not actually a example in the world where a society divided along ethnic lines has actually worked. Even Brazil, which many regard as an integrated society, has the same ethno-economic divisions as the rest of the West.

PS On cnh's comment. I would not knock the views of decent sympathetic people, as opposed to those of leftist one world idealogues, but how practical is it to expect such an open ended committment to the disadvantaged in a world of 6 billion people? I keep saying it but we should go with human nature as it is. Give away too much of what a man (who is not a saint) earns for himself and his own to faceless others and is it any surprise when he in turn expects his due from others rather than attempt to help himself. In the 3rd world it is common for people to care for their elderly parents. We stick ours in a home. Why not? We paid for everyone else's welfare after all so it's our turn to receive. Real charity is great but state enforced charity that is imposed upon us destroys natural feelings.

[churkus]

I'm also not so convinced by the legitimacy of the vast number of non-english speaking people in my home town. Its not exactly a prime holiday destination so most probably live there now, and these people are getting on the bus with bags of shopping speaking in their native tongue to their kids rather than english....that annoys me.

A few years ago whilst in Spain, I met an English family on a bus - expats who had settled in Spain. They also had bags of shopping. Guess what, they were talking to their kids in their native tongue rather than Spanish.......In fact they spoke very little Spanish themselves and said they did most of their "business" through friends/interpretors...

[Gibbon]

I'm an immigrant. Do you object to my presence?

Now cnch, I don't object to your presence here in the UK as an immigrant, just your presence on here for being a complete twat with that question. And even more so with that drivel about crossing deserts etc.

HTH BIDI

[cnch]

Now cnch, I don't object to your presence here in the UK as an immigrant, just my presence on here for being a complete twat. And even more so with the drivel I talk

HTH BIDI

What can I say to something so eloquently put? T*t!

[Doggy Styles]

Crossing deserts, eh? And where does that all end? I'll tell you where. A non-stop production line of people who can't feed or house themselves expanding into other countries until those countries, too, are overcrowded. Then where do we go, the moon?

Harsh it might sound, but nature's controls are the only way to prevent runaway population expansion. Each country just has to do what it can - within it's own borders. Too many people? Your problem mate - manage it like we try to do. (At least, like we tried to do before 1997)