Intra Company Transfers

[DodgyAgent]

My TV came from a little, local shop which gives good value for money and employs loads of local people. Even Dixons, Amazon etc. offer local jobs.

Foreign cars - may be built here or parts may be made here. Servicing is done locally, petrol is sold locally, insurance is UK-based.

Outsource your IT department, fill the desks with foreign staff - what's that giving to the local economy?

I've no problem with companies cutting costs by using foreign suppliers - as long as some of the work is done in the UK - installation, support, maintenance. It shouldn't be a one-way street.

Why should a business exist just for the benefit of the local community? there needs to be a balance, but that balance is a moving target constantly changing and evolving, and that balance should be mostly driven by market forces.

If the local IT skilled workforce are lazy and useless then they have no right to expect the employer not to send work offshore.

[DodgyAgent]

Offshoring is done to save money (Athough it rarely does), it doesn't mean its a better service. I assume you think the 10000 customers surveyed about the service I was talking about are all wrong as well.

I do not think I am owed a living, I think I am owed a fair chance at getting a job, being experienced and qualified but I do expect a fair wage. Why should a low skilled job get paid more than someone who is skilled?

If you had half brain cell you would read between the lines and see that I'm saying something has to give and cannot continue to be us otherwise we will have nothing left, no economy, no housing market, etc etc

I do think this Country needs to be cheaper but the fact of the matter is it won't, no matter which Government we have we have too much debt to give a cheaper cost of living. The Government does need to do more to encourage employers to stay in this country and that is the point, not that I'm owed a living as I could easily go somewhere else.

If I had half a brain cell then I would be a contractor.

Back to your point. Just because 10,000 people sign a petition does not mean that the company is going to lose its customers. You say that offshoring doesnt save money. Clearly it does otherwise any manager doing it would soon be out of work. These companies have calculated that their "customers" dont actually need an all singing and dancing service. They may not like talking to "charlie" in Mumbai and they may sign a petition and throw a rant, but they are not going to leave in sufficient numbers to make the business change its mind are they?

Dixons used to sell stuff that broke down. their customer service was appalling. Stanley Kalms later admitted that they dindnt need to bother about service as they were a monopoly on the high street. People could complain all they liked but still they would buy from Dixons.

When the competition sharpened up so did they.. That is business

Some of you drone on about "quality, quality quality" without realising that quite often all the customer really wants is something that is cheap and cheerful

[sasguru]

I agree with Dodgy.
The world does not owe anyone a living. Doesn't matter about your qualifications etc. the world does STILL not owe you a job. If you don't like what's going on with outsourcing etc then change it - start a company which offers superior service, whatever.
The market will decide and your whinging is worth nowt.


HTH

[Rookie]

Why should a business exist just for the benefit of the local community? there needs to be a balance, but that balance is a moving target constantly changing and evolving, and that balance should be mostly driven by market forces.

If the local IT skilled workforce are lazy and useless then they have no right to expect the employer not to send work offshore.

too expensive

[NotAllThere]

...You say that offshoring doesnt save money. Clearly it does otherwise any manager doing it would soon be out of work....

May I refer you to this discussion earlier in the week?

That doesn't really matter.

They are cheaper.

Thats the crux of the matter but it is not always the case.

IFAICS CEOs get remunerated for cost savings within the context of the financial year, therefore they will personally reap the benefit of the so called cost saving, while the consequences will be felt long after the cost saving bonus is bobbing merrily on the water in the South of France

IMHO, the outsourcing model is unsustainable owing the massive wage inflation in the traditional outsourcing areas. Add to this wage deflation in traditional 1st world economies, and the associated pitfalls of outsourcing.

At this point however, it is still "cheaper" to outsource. We are told we need to adapt to a global economy etc etc, when all outsourcing is really doing is eroding the skills base and transferring knowledge and expertise out of the country.

Offshoring saves money short-term. Long term, it's damaging. Of course, it does depend greatly on what you offshore.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Freedom of movement

I reckon you're a bit of a bigot. Who may have an

The polish ones are a different case - EU and all that, freedom of movement etc. While I don't really like how the company acted, for better or worse we're part of the EU and when you dance with the devil you pay the price, That's the price.

You are free to look for work in the EU and the EU workers are free to work in the UK. This is fair.

Indians,Australians,New Zealanders etc can work in the UK but you and I can not apply for contract jobs in India,Australia,New Zealand etc. That is unfair.

We do not ask the Australians to emigrate to the UK before they can do a 6 months contract so why do they expect us to emigrate to Australia to do a 6 months contract.
I DO NOT WISH TO EMIGRATE, I just want to work in Australia for the same reason that the Australians wish to work in europe.

[snaw]

You are free to look for work in the EU and the EU workers are free to work in the UK. This is fair.

Indians,Australians,New Zealanders etc can work in the UK but you and I can not apply for contract jobs in India,Australia,New Zealand etc. That is unfair.

We do not ask the Australians to emigrate to the UK before they can do a 6 months contract so why do they expect us to emigrate to Australia to do a 6 months contract.
I DO NOT WISH TO EMIGRATE, I just want to work in Australia for the same reason that the Australians wish to work in europe.

Sorry, your point was?

[The Lone Gunman]

Sorry, your point was?

I am still waiting for your words of wisdom on this question:

How should we adapt?
Assume a software dev on 40K per year loses their job to a cheaper import/offshore.
What can this person retrain in so as not to compromise their lifestyle.
Your solution must be sustainable ie not vulnerable to off/on shoring.
Does your solution pan out to the thousands in similar positions?

[GardenGirl]

If I had half a brain cell then I would be a contractor.

Back to your point. Just because 10,000 people sign a petition does not mean that the company is going to lose its customers.

You say that offshoring doesnt save money. Clearly it does otherwise any manager doing it would soon be out of work.

These companies have calculated that their "customers" dont actually need an all singing and dancing service.

Dixons used to sell stuff that broke down. their customer service was appalling. Stanley Kalms later admitted that they dindnt need to bother about service as they were a monopoly on the high street. People could complain all they liked but still they would buy from Dixons.

I said they completed a survey not signed a petition the least you could do is read properly if you are going to comment

Offshoring can save money but often doesn't. If your right why have some companies brought things back? Or advertise that their customer service is in the UK?.

Maybe if more people objected to rubbish service we wouldn't have to put up with it.

There is a reason for Quality, its called standards, Health & safety etc etc. Yes I want things cheaper, but no i don't want to compromise my quality and in this day and age that should be possible. I hope they don't apply your logic to something like break discs.

Wouldn't shop at Dixons these days if you paid me, so obviously they lost at least one customer, shame more don't stand up for what they believe in.
Companies would then have to look at working Smarter without impacting Quality.

[Cyberman]

I emailed him. He seems reasonable. He wants to do face to face interviews if poss and he has said he will hide identities.
It is a real chance for one of ours to make the points we have been discussing for years about undermining UK jobs and employment law, not to mention the (flawed) FTV system.
You seem a reasonable bloke to so wont come across as some rabid twat with a chip on his shoulder.
This country is bleeding itself dry. Jobs are going, skills are going, kids see no point in joining these industries. The tax take is down and we are supporting more and more unemployed who cant get a job they are qualified and skilled at because of intras.

Sorry starting to rant.

Go on, talk to him.

This has been going on for a decade and shows the government up yet again for what they are. Too little, too late, and it is too late to bolt the stable door.