Intra Company Transfers

[DodgyAgent]

If I had to reason every argument we would be here all day. Particularly as some of our bretheren are more obsessed with minor points rather than the big picture.

Did'nt Hitler want world peace?

[The Lone Gunman]

Indeed. Companies should base themselves here and pay us top whack cause it's expensive to live here and they've an obligation to us to make sure we can live in a style we're accustomed too ...

You seem happy to let them sell their goods here at top whack. To make a profit here without paying tax etc.
Wrong end of the stick again, though that would be one solution.

Another would be to let the UK consumers purchase their goods anywhere in the world. Why should I have to pay 50 quid for a pair of levis in the UK when I can source them for a fiver at the point of production?

If all the highly paid jobs are FTVed or ICTed or offshored then how will the UK resident service their mortgage, buy a new car or TV? The whole economy will collapse.

This global issue is a big big subject and trying to isolate one part of the argument is not going to lead to any reasoned debate.

[DodgyAgent]

I agree with you. This isn't about race, this is common sense, if you offshore roles and then bring in cheaper labour from abroad as well, the British worker is forced to to either compete or be unemployed we already have more people than jobs. Companies have been having their cake and eating it and it isn't on.

You only have to look at the car industry to see where this is going.

What's more offshoring doesn't work, I've seen it with my own eyes and what I'm talking about wasn't offshored to India it went to Hungry and the service they provide now is rubbish, it takes three times as long to get things resolved and takes any average of 2 phones calls instead of 1. This in the opinion of the customers receiving it. This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with Quality vs Cheapness and the two do not go together.

Who on here hasn't got wound up from speaking to a companies offshored customer service? The reason for this is because they read from Scripts and don't understand what you are saying and this is more than language barrier, they just don't understand how to deal with us.

the cost of living in this country is expensive so having cheap wages is not an option, ask yourself could you live on minimum wage? if you can't maybe should care more about this sort of thing.

If offshoring doesnt work then why do so many companies use it? We are not owed a living in this country and businesses are not obliged to be based here. It is up to us to provide the right environment to come here through our dear government ()

You seem to think you are owed a living because you are British. Sorry pal you are not due any special favours.

[The Lone Gunman]

If offshoring doesnt work then why do so many companies use it? We are not owed a living in this country and businesses are not obliged to be based here. It is up to us to provide the right environment to come here through our dear government ()

You seem to think you are owed a living because you are British. Sorry pal you are not due any special favours.

I agree we are not owed anything and it is up to us to make things right, but conversely we should have the right to decide who we trade with and where our goods come from. Businesses trading in the UK should have some obligation to the UK.
At the moment we have the worst of both worlds.

I still see doom on the horizon if we continue down this road.
Brits can not compete without reducing wages/rates. They can not reduce those because of the overheads and cost of living.
If we do reduce then we go bust. People will not be able to service their mortgages. They will not buy luxury items and will look for cheaper alternatives to their daily purchases.
If we dont reduce then we go bust anyway as the jobs drain away.

If the consumer has to keep purchasing through locally licenced suppliers then they are tied to the local price. The price will eventualy have to drop due to nobody having any money from point above. That or the manufacturer will simply start to sell to the upward bound economies abroad.
If the consumer is allowed to source globally then others suffer. The local supplier will start to charge more due to global demand so the locals will be priced out of the market or need higher wages.

I know you dont agree, but I can not see any other route. I might even go as far as to suggest the current banking crisis is tied up with theis scenario and will exascerbate the problem.

[SillyMilly]

Every contractor who has seen examples of this should help the BBC with their story. Contractors are perfect for this because they are not answerable up the line to the IT directors as permies are. More often than not the managers who the contractors work for are equally dismayed by this scam but dare not say anything.

Surely agents would be perfect too? You must get a wider view of the market than contractors and must also talk to managers who having off-shorers forced on them.

Have you contacted David Lewis, Dodgy?

[snaw]

I agree we are not owed anything and it is up to us to make things right, but conversely we should have the right to decide who we trade with and where our goods come from. Businesses trading in the UK should have some obligation to the UK.
At the moment we have the worst of both worlds.

I still see doom on the horizon if we continue down this road.
Brits can not compete without reducing wages/rates. They can not reduce those because of the overheads and cost of living.
If we do reduce then we go bust. People will not be able to service their mortgages. They will not buy luxury items and will look for cheaper alternatives to their daily purchases.
If we dont reduce then we go bust anyway as the jobs drain away.

If the consumer has to keep purchasing through locally licenced suppliers then they are tied to the local price. The price will eventualy have to drop due to nobody having any money from point above. That or the manufacturer will simply start to sell to the upward bound economies abroad.
If the consumer is allowed to source globally then others suffer. The local supplier will start to charge more due to global demand so the locals will be priced out of the market or need higher wages.

I know you dont agree, but I can not see any other route. I might even go as far as to suggest the current banking crisis is tied up with theis scenario and will exascerbate the problem.

Was about to reply, but really what's the point in trying to debate with someone so obviously off on one, he'd not listen anyway and most of that answer is complete hysterical bollocks.

Interesting to see how you manage to tie in the banking crisis ... here's me thinking it was greedy bankers and really it was cheap foreign labour coming to the UK and knicking our jobs ...

BTW How much did you pay for your telly?

[GardenGirl]

If offshoring doesnt work then why do so many companies use it? We are not owed a living in this country and businesses are not obliged to be based here. It is up to us to provide the right environment to come here through our dear government ()

You seem to think you are owed a living because you are British. Sorry pal you are not due any special favours.

Offshoring is done to save money (Athough it rarely does), it doesn't mean its a better service. I assume you think the 10000 customers surveyed about the service I was talking about are all wrong as well.

I do not think I am owed a living, I think I am owed a fair chance at getting a job, being experienced and qualified but I do expect a fair wage. Why should a low skilled job get paid more than someone who is skilled?

If you had half brain cell you would read between the lines and see that I'm saying something has to give and cannot continue to be us otherwise we will have nothing left, no economy, no housing market, etc etc

I do think this Country needs to be cheaper but the fact of the matter is it won't, no matter which Government we have we have too much debt to give a cheaper cost of living. The Government does need to do more to encourage employers to stay in this country and that is the point, not that I'm owed a living as I could easily go somewhere else.

[The Lone Gunman]

Was about to reply, but really what's the point in trying to debate with someone so obviously off on one, he'd not listen anyway and most of that answer is complete hysterical bollocks.

Interesting to see how you manage to tie in the banking crisis ... here's me thinking it was greedy bankers and really it was cheap foreign labour coming to the UK and knicking our jobs ...

BTW How much did you pay for your telly?

I am willing to listen, you might even change my mind. Something I doubt can be said of you.
That is my doom scenario.
Last telly was 1500 quid.

How should we adapt?
Assume a software dev on 40K per year loses their job to a cheaper import/offshore.
What can this person retrain in so as not to compromise their lifestyle.
Your solution must be sustainable ie not vulnerable to off/on shoring.
Does your solution pan out to the thousands in similar positions?

As for banking and I did say I was dubious. The banks would not have collapsed if people had been able to service their mortgages. It is a mixture of greed by the bankers and collapsing incomes of the workers, not purely banking greed. But remove that from my scenario if you like.

[SillyMilly]

My TV came from a little, local shop which gives good value for money and employs loads of local people. Even Dixons, Amazon etc. offer local jobs.

Foreign cars - may be built here or parts may be made here. Servicing is done locally, petrol is sold locally, insurance is UK-based.

Outsource your IT department, fill the desks with foreign staff - what's that giving to the local economy?

I've no problem with companies cutting costs by using foreign suppliers - as long as some of the work is done in the UK - installation, support, maintenance. It shouldn't be a one-way street.

[DodgyAgent]

Surely agents would be perfect too? You must get a wider view of the market than contractors and must also talk to managers who having off-shorers forced on them.

Have you contacted David Lewis, Dodgy?

I have