A third of Poles driven home by recession

[TimberWolf]

Again my view is that if they are not happy on £6.00 an hour then they would do something about it.

Perhaps they could look for a gap in the unskilled market? Only to see it swamped by government sponsored competition from Eastern Europe that would be impossible to compete with.

[Cyberman]

Originally Posted by Cyberman
Sorry, but I am sceptical to say the least. After HMG stated that only 13,000 would arrive we share 1.2 MILLION official Polish immigrants with Eire.

HMG estimates are for the UK
Eire is not part of the UK so what relevance do they have to the estimate?

Why not add another random European country?

It's not random, is it!!! It is mentioned that there are 1.2 million Poles shared between us and Eire(Ireland). Thus I split that into half to work out a rough estimate of our figure ( 600,000 perhaps). HMG say a third (400,000 of 1.2 million) will go home, but it seems to me that they being dishonest yet again here by referring to the UK + Eire figure. One third of 600,000 = 200,000 !!!!!

[Cyberman]

Well they are going home because actually they want to work, they dont want benefits they want work. This is exactly how a labour market should work. There should be serious competition at both ends. For employers there should be plenty of choice to pick their workers from, and for workers there should be plenty of choice of where they work.

Employers and employees work far more efficiently if they have to compete in the labour market. "Protecting" jobs from competition is of no use to anyone.

They will not go home if they do not have jobs in Poland to go to. They will prefer to draw benefits here for what I would have thought were plainly obvious reasons. Not obvious to you though.

Competition is ok while there are jobs. Unfortunately we are soon about to have very little to compete for, as official unemployment rises to 3 to 4 million within the next 18 months. Actual unemployment will be even higher!!

[Cyberman]

That is a myth. It is illegal and a different part of a different argument

It's not a myth and it is not illegal. Do you not know the reasons why I say this, because you of all people should know?

[Cyberman]

I am not talking about Indians, I am talking about the EU. I am challenging:

The assumption that employees are legally exploited (I dont feel exploited so why should a Pole on £6.00 an hour feel exploited??)

and

2. I am saying that competition in the workplace and the jobs market is a highly desirable thing. It has the effect of ensuring that employers look after their staff and that employees give their job their best.

And whilst LG wishes to argue that poor workers everywhere are being exploited by nasty profit making organisations I am saying that this is not so and that employees are generally not stupid enough or pathetic enough to allow themselves to be exploited as such

You have not got a clue!!

[Cyberman]

That is not strictly true though is it. The competition is unfair when one employee has significantly less costs to meet. Not just talking poles here. The global economy has been set up in favour of the employer/business as he can produce in the lowest cost country but the worker/consumer is restricted to buying his goods and services locally.
You know this argument and where it goes Dodge.

Hear hear !!!

[Cyberman]

Well getting back to the indigenous population, since we already know that Poles are happy on £6 /hour. Is £6 / hour even enough to cover your Council tax, let alone to buy some food?

.. but Poles are accepting far less than 6 pounds an hour. That is the crux of the problem.

[Bagpuss]

How many Poles do you know exactly?

[M_B]

If someone came up to me and complained about their job and pay, I would simply say "its a free world, get another job".

You are assuming a freedom of labour mobility. Many people become tied to their jobs either through financial commitment or lack of other opportunities. Someone working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day in a factory on minimum wage with a family to support does not necessarily have the time nor the financial support to up sticks especially when you get no state benefit from deciding to voluntarily leave your work. Plus in some parts of the country, factory work is about as good as it gets.

[Cyberman]

How many Poles do you know exactly?

My neighbour runs his own window-cleaning business and all I ever see is Poles working for him. He asked me if I wanted Polish lodgers last year. I was also down my local and started a conversation with a couple of guys who by pure chance were Poles and they mentioned that their father, also in the UK, could put in a electric shower for me.

If you go to Oxford Road in Reading you will find a Polish pub and also many shops run by Poles. I seem to have a habit of bumping into them wherever I go.