A third of Poles driven home by recession

[TimberWolf]

Employers and employees work far more efficiently if they have to compete in the labour market. "Protecting" jobs from competition is of no use to anyone.

So why not allow Indian nationals to live and work here. They would benefit from this far more than the poles and create a lot more competition for the lazy Brits wanting more than a bowl of rice a day.

[TimberWolf]

So why not allow Indian nationals to live and work here. They would benefit from this far more than the poles and create a lot more competition for the lazy Brits wanting more than a bowl of rice a day.

Come to think of it that may have been Labours plan with regard to IT.

[DodgyAgent]

So why not allow Indian nationals to live and work here. They would benefit from this far more than the poles and create a lot more competition for the lazy Brits wanting more than a bowl of rice a day.

I am not talking about Indians, I am talking about the EU. I am challenging:

The assumption that employees are legally exploited (I dont feel exploited so why should a Pole on £6.00 an hour feel exploited??)

and

2. I am saying that competition in the workplace and the jobs market is a highly desirable thing. It has the effect of ensuring that employers look after their staff and that employees give their job their best.

And whilst LG wishes to argue that poor workers everywhere are being exploited by nasty profit making organisations I am saying that this is not so and that employees are generally not stupid enough or pathetic enough to allow themselves to be exploited as such

[TimberWolf]

I am not talking about Indians, I am talking about the EU. I am challenging:

The assumption that employees are legally exploited (I dont feel exploited so why should a Pole on £6.00 an hour feel exploited??)

and

2. I am saying that competition in the workplace and the jobs market is a highly desirable thing. It has the effect of ensuring that employers look after their staff and that employees give their job their best.

And whilst LG wishes to argue that poor workers everywhere are being exploited by nasty profit making organisations I am saying that this is not so and that employees are generally not stupid enough or pathetic enough to allow themselves to be exploited as such

Dodgy, when you move out of you £500K house and easy job (by which I mean not washing dishes) and work for £10k a year with no prospect of a decent retirement or a better lot in life and can still write the above with conviction I might be more convinced about your objectivity. As it is it stands it sounds as if you are very happy with the status quo and those much less fortunate should be happy with it too. I am not saying you haven't worked hard to get where you are and do not deserve to be rewarded, I just think the unskilled have had a raw deal out of the huge immigration that has occurred in the UK. They are stuffed.

[The Lone Gunman]

I am not talking about Indians, I am talking about the EU. I am challenging:

The assumption that employees are legally exploited (I dont feel exploited so why should a Pole on £6.00 an hour feel exploited??)

and

2. I am saying that competition in the workplace and the jobs market is a highly desirable thing. It has the effect of ensuring that employers look after their staff and that employees give their job their best.

And whilst LG wishes to argue that poor workers everywhere are being exploited by nasty profit making organisations I am saying that this is not so and that employees are generally not stupid enough or pathetic enough to allow themselves to be exploited as such

Stop twisting it Dodgy, I did not say nasty, I just questioned the morals of some of these companies. Mc Donalds for instance. Not a small company I think you would agree and one that makes a serious profit. One that also employs lots of students because they are exempt from minimum wage.
Shelf stackers, cleaners and till staff at Tesco are all on low wages yet Tesco have yet again announced record profits. The people who run the forecourts for the petrol giants aint earning much either. These people are liek your Poles, they work because they want to work btu considering the profits their employers make they are being exploited. They are exploited because they are unskilled disposable staff.

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy, when you move out of you £500K house and easy job (by which I mean not washing dishes) and work for £10k a year with no prospect of a decent retirement or a better lot in life and can still write the above with conviction I might be more convinced about your objectivity. As it is it stands it sounds as if you are very happy with the status quo and those much less fortunate should be happy with it too. I am not saying you haven't worked hard to get where you are and do not deserve to be rewarded, I just think the unskilled have had a raw deal out of the huge immigration that has occurred in the UK. They are stuffed.

I dont have this patronising assumption that me in my £500K (sorry £300k now) should feel sorry for someone earning £10,000 per annum. I trust people to make their own decisions and if they are happy on £10k then it is not for me to tell them they are losers who should be earning more (which effectively is what you are saying).

Low skill, high skill, whatever skill worker afetr all has the same choice as your average Pole and can go and work in Warsaw if they so wish

[DodgyAgent]

Stop twisting it Dodgy, I did not say nasty, I just questioned the morals of some of these companies. Mc Donalds for instance. Not a small company I think you would agree and one that makes a serious profit. One that also employs lots of students because they are exempt from minimum wage.
Shelf stackers, cleaners and till staff at Tesco are all on low wages yet Tesco have yet again announced record profits. The people who run the forecourts for the petrol giants aint earning much either. These people are liek your Poles, they work because they want to work btu considering the profits their employers make they are being exploited. They are exploited because they are unskilled disposable staff.

Just as I have said to Timberwolf, if these people do not want to do low level jobs they dont have to. They probably also dont take kindly to patronising do gooders criticising their employers "on their behalf". Low skill workers do low skill jobs because they want to, to assume anything different assumes they are too stupid to realise what is good for them.

[TimberWolf]

Just as I have said to Timberwolf...

Repeating it doesn't make it right!

[The Lone Gunman]

Just as I have said to Timberwolf, if these people do not want to do low level jobs they dont have to. They probably also dont take kindly to patronising do gooders criticising their employers "on their behalf". Low skill workers do low skill jobs because they want to, to assume anything different assumes they are too stupid to realise what is good for them.

You are going to have to explain that one to me Dodgy. How do the unskilled get out of doing unskilled work? Some people have to work (sometimes at 2 or more jobs) just to hold onto the meagre things they have. Without savings you can not walk away from a job to get training. Not everybody has the mind set to be better trained.

Do you really not see my point? Do you really not see any immorality in businesses paying minimum wage at the bottom and massive bonuses and divvies at the top. Can you not understand that globalisation should be open to the consumer not just the manufacturer?

[DodgyAgent]

You are going to have to explain that one to me Dodgy. How do the unskilled get out of doing unskilled work? Some people have to work (sometimes at 2 or more jobs) just to hold onto the meagre things they have. Without savings you can not walk away from a job to get training. Not everybody has the mind set to be better trained.

Do you really not see my point? Do you really not see any immorality in businesses paying minimum wage at the bottom and massive bonuses and divvies at the top. Can you not understand that globalisation should be open to the consumer not just the manufacturer?

I refuse to tell people on low wage jobs that they need me to lobby on their behalf. Most workers on low wages are there by choice and funniliy enough do not want to learn to program computers. If any of them have been held back then it is by the states appalling education system.

If you start the argument about inequality of earnings then I will put you and your earnings up for debate. I mean why should you earn £100,000 a year for sitting in front of a screen and doing a job that most people could do, whilst there are nurses earning as little as £24,000 a year doing a far more valuable job? What makes you any more deserving of your wages when our Nigerian born highly educated cleaner is earning £8.00 hour.