A third of Poles driven home by recession

[Cyberman]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, you're quite old aren't you?
You'll be out of your misery before you know it

That's correct actually. It's youngsters like yourself that face decades of high tax to pay off the debts Labour are building up, and of course those public sector pensions that already are a future burden of one trillion pounds.

Don't forget also that you will be paying my state pension.

Cheers young Bagpuss !!

[SueEllen]

That's correct actually. It's youngsters like yourself that face decades of high tax to pay off the debts Labour are building up, and of course those public sector pensions that already are a future burden of one trillion pounds.

Don't forget also that you will be paying my state pension.

Cheers young Bagpuss !!

Least we won't be wiping your ass in an old people's home.

It will be a nice immigrant who has been brought up to respect old people and doesn't mind working for crap wages.

[M_B]

Rubbish, in the 80s recession my dad (got on his bike and) found high paid work in another part of the country. Many skilled tradesmen do that, as us contractors do. Nothing to stop the unskilled doing it too. E.g. Sainsburys pay distribution staff 30k plus for a relatively easy unskiled job, that's a fair bit more than minimum wage. If you a lazy or flipless barsteward you get rewarded as such on the whole.

I have highlighted the imortant part for you in relation to the mobility of labour point I made. How on Earth does your point relate for example to a man supporting his wife and three kids in the Valleys of Wales ? In your world - he leaves his job, sells his negative equity house, gets another job god knows where by going to an interview he cant afford to go to, to move to a community he doesn't know all with no benefits as he voluntered to leave his job and £2.34 in savings.

Do you live in reality ?

[TheBigYinJames]

How on Earth does your point relate for example to a man supporting his wife and three kids in the Valleys of Wales ?

Some of us contractors support a wife and family as well, and we need to move around as the market dictates.

[M_B]

Some of us contractors support a wife and family as well, and we need to move around as the market dictates.

So ? Are you suggesting everyone has freedom of movement ? In additon to the fact that everyone cant just upsticks, have you for a moment considered the effect that would have on families and communities ?

[TheBigYinJames]

So ? Are you suggesting everyone has freedom of movement ? In additon to the fact that everyone cant just upsticks, have you for a moment considered the effect that would have on families and communities ?

Not everyone, some families need more maintenance than others but far more could do, and choose not to, so it's a lifestyle decision rather than a necessity. Families don't need to be adversely affected, I believe it's far more damaging to have a long-term unemployed father than it is to have one who weekly commmutes in order to see them through a recession yet provides a positive working role model.

In my working life, there have been periods where I've had to work away from home during the week. I've tried to keep it to a minimum, but it's not always possible. I believe it's far more important for the wage earner to maintain the family's home and income than it is to be physically present 24-7 but put their lifestyle and stability in jeopardy by that choice.

Long distance truckers, oil rig workers, travelling reps, couriers, etc manage to keep their families fed and clothed even though they are not always there as often as they'd like. It's not as impossible or preposterous as you make out. I may earn more as a contractor, but that doesn't make it any more bearable to be away from home, but it's something I feel duty bound to do, rather than sitting on my behind on the dole in the name of 'can't upset the family circle'

As for communities, which decade of the 20th century are you living in again? The workforce has been geographically mobile for years now, it's just not sunk down to the idle job-for-lifers suddenly thrown on the scrapheap.

[Bagpuss]

I have highlighted the imortant part for you in relation to the mobility of labour point I made. How on Earth does your point relate for example to a man supporting his wife and three kids in the Valleys of Wales ? In your world - he leaves his job, sells his negative equity house, gets another job god knows where by going to an interview he cant afford to go to, to move to a community he doesn't know all with no benefits as he voluntered to leave his job and £2.34 in savings.

Do you live in reality ?

It sounds like you are describing the case of someone who is educationally subnormal or lazy. Anyone with a bit of initiative can find average paid work or better, at least not minimum wage, IF they are prepared to make some sacrifices. My father supported a wife and 2 kids, and was never out of work even in the worst bits of the 80s, 3 million on the dole, 1.5 million plus on other benefits. He could have blamed the government or the local job market and ended up broke or on the dole, but he decided to use some common sense, I know it's out of fashion these days.

[M_B]

Not everyone, some families need more maintenance than others but far more could do, and choose not to, so it's a lifestyle decision rather than a necessity. Families don't need to be adversely affected, I believe it's far more damaging to have a long-term unemployed father than it is to have one who weekly commmutes in order to see them through a recession yet provides a positive working role model.

In my working life, there have been periods where I've had to work away from home during the week. I've tried to keep it to a minimum, but it's not always possible. I believe it's far more important for the wage earner to maintain the family's home and income than it is to be physically present 24-7 but put their lifestyle and stability in jeopardy by that choice.

Long distance truckers, oil rig workers, travelling reps, couriers, etc manage to keep their families fed and clothed even though they are not always there as often as they'd like. It's not as impossible or preposterous as you make out. I may earn more as a contractor, but that doesn't make it any more bearable to be away from home, but it's something I feel duty bound to do, rather than sitting on my behind on the dole in the name of 'can't upset the family circle'

As for communities, which decade of the 20th century are you living in again? The workforce has been geographically mobile for years now, it's just not sunk down to the idle job-for-lifers suddenly thrown on the scrapheap.

I'm not talking about the long term unemployed though. I am talking about those who are employed. The poster earlier stated if they weren't happy with their wage then they should move. I was merely pointing out that for the majority this just is not possible for whatever reason.

Additionally you have a job that permits you to work away and still be a bread winner. That is a something many people simply cant do. Think of the professions in your community - butchers, miners, civil servants, fishermen, factory workers etc etc. We need people to do these jobs - they cant just decide one day to relocate.

Also you cannot dismiss the effect on communities. If people leave jobs to move away, then that income leaves the community thereby directly affecting the income of local pubs, shops etc etc. It lso undermines the sense of community. Have you been to the villages in Wales or infact any village not in commuting distance of a city ? There are a vast amount and in most cases are based around a single industry. Your argument does not fit with that and I suspect you have no experience outside that of a commuting suburban area.

Again your entire argument is based on freedom of movement. This doesnt exist whatever you may think.

[M_B]

It sounds like you are describing the case of someone who is educationally subnormal or lazy. Anyone with a bit of initiative can find average paid work or better, at least not minimum wage, IF they are prepared to make some sacrifices. My father supported a wife and 2 kids, and was never out of work even in the worst bits of the 80s, 3 million on the dole, 1.5 million plus on other benefits. He could have blamed the government or the local job market and ended up broke or on the dole, but he decided to use some common sense, I know it's out of fashion these days.

Not at all. During the 80's as you say there were over 3 million unemployed. I daresay they weren't "subnormal or lazy". During the great depression there were far more. I suspect they weren't being lazy either.

[Bagpuss]

Not at all. During the 80's as you say there were over 3 million unemployed. I daresay they weren't "subnormnal or lazy".

I thought you were talking about now? My point was when times were much worse there was still work if you were willing to inconvience yourself.

Not happy with your lot? retrain, get a skill. Don't complain that the local factory doesn't pay enough above and beyond state benefits. Was once a time when people had dignity and self respect, I think they were called the working class.