The shape of things to come....

[Churchill]

sas I'm more English than thee

you lot, all complaining while enjoying the benefits of the immigration policy


you lot need to learn to lead by example

you want the immigrants to integrate

then lead by example and go an integrate with them

perhaps there should a 'hug an immigrant day' when every member of the indigenous population has to go and befriend and immigrant and see the beauty of cultural diversity

you could visit them, they could visit you, you and they could cook meals and compare family life, and it could be a real opportunity for integration and making new friends for life

problem solved

Milan.

I've done my bit, I've shagged the odd dusky maiden or two...
Actually, they weren't that odd...

[SallyAnne]

Why have your parents not bothered tryign to learn Spanish? Is it beneath them? Do they not want to be able to integrate with the local population? If so why the hell are they going there???

It's not beneath them - the complete opposite!! It's above them! Too hard for them at their age. They're not scholars - they're pensioners!

And as for integrating with the local population, as I just said - the local population are all English.

They're going there for the weather and the low cost of living.


I'm not saying whether I think this is an amazing thing for the Spanish people, but it's amazing for them. Much like it's amazing for the foreigners being able to move to this country.

[SallyAnne]

Can anyone else spot the irony here? Immigrants (in this case the British) populating their own little enclaves in other countries, staying within their own communities, opening fish and chip shops, not bothering to speak the local language, imposing their loud music, events and custom and expecting these to be accepted by the locals... while I believe integration is the key, if its possible not to do it , people who can't be bothered won't integrate.

Absolutely - I see it from both sides, hence why I'm probably more tolerant than most.

[milanbenes]

GingerRogers,

'I'm not sure if you're just taking the pi55 but why should I integrate with foreigners in my own country?',

I'll give you a little lesson in life,

if you learn to lead by example, to take the high ground, to rise above the rest with dignity, your life and career will benefit from it

he who sews Rodders, he who sews

Milan.

[milanbenes]

Pondlife, your lunch sounds great, sweine haxe is one of the nciest meals

Milan.

[sasguru]

he who sews Rodders, he who sews

Milan.

Sews? So we should all go into tailoring?
Are you a complete cretin, Milan?

[DodgyAgent]

I don't agree with some of the things you say here. You make an assumption that Britishness is about caucasian anglo saxon traditions - the fish and chip eating footie supporter who drinks down the Dog and Duck for which everyone should be indoctrinated to qualify for a Britishness badge - when there is little evidence that this is so. Many commonwealth citizens are as British as you and I but they are not white. They originally emigrated to come here as British citizens and have since created a generation of non white British born citizens. So the true 'Britishness' of our culture is not white at all. It is intrinsic to the notion of mixed races and cultures.

With immigrants who settle here to live. There is a lot of adversity directed at the Islamic communities because of the fear of terrorism. Yet, it makes no sense to discriminate against them coming being here by forcing them to drink down the Dog and Duck and eat fish and chips because countless British citizens also emigrate to live abroad but have no intention or inclination to absorb the culture of the host countries they live in.

I have recently bought a flat in Bulgaria but don't actually intend nor am I expected by the authorities to eat Yoghurt everyday and learn fluent Bulgarian. So why should a Muslim (extremists excluded who should be booted out) have to learn and speak English to feel safe and welcome in this country? It makes no sense at all. To turn it on its head. If I were to live and work in an Islamic country, I would have to follow their culture in much the same way as you expect them to follow what you consider ours. Mainly because the laws of the land and intrinsically tied to the Islamic faith, unlike here where church and state are separate. But I would object to not being allowed to drive and wearing a headdress all day. Why should I become a de-facto Muslim, in other words when I don't wish to do this?

Also what claims do we really have to say we are a Christian country? We certainly have a Anglican and Catholic Christian heritage but we can hardly call ourselves a nation of churchgoers. Hardly anyone goes to church these days.

I think my point of view carries more rational weight than yours, but I do concede that Britishness is as much (not more) about the traditions you wish to impose on all who live here, as it is about tolerance of those who may not want to adopt the 'fish and chip' traditions for themselves but live alongside us keeping to their own cultural traditions as we probably would if we lived elsewhere.

It is clear that white British citizens are starting to feel threatened by the multi-cultural diversification that is gaining more media prominence than ever before. That's why the Oxford prayer call story raised so many hackles.

I see no reason at all why a call to prayer is necessary in Oxfordshire. Muslim prayer times are fixed five times per day so why the reminder? But lets not kid ourselves that the more familiar clanking of church bells are anything more than a farce in Britain today when the church pews are empty.

First of all I am not talking about indoctrination I am merely suggesting acceptance of Britishness.

yes I am talking about a society that has evolved according to British "white" anglo saxon values, but I am not saying that this type of society is or should be exclusive to white people (which it isnt)

If someone chooses to live here and decides not to learn to speak English then it is their problem if they cannot communicate with say the council, the school teacher or the chemist.

Christianity very much represents the history and culture behind Britishness. It represents the availability of religion to people in this country yet it knows its place as an institution that complements our democratic system (in other words we can take it or leave it, take the p*ss out of it, and our political system is dominated by debate and argument rather than superstition). On the other hand Islam represents in many ways an ongoing battle to impose its will upon people, to stamp out democracy and religious freedom.

So when the church bells ring they give a unthreatening sense of security that reminds us of how our democracy and civilised way of life has evolved, and why we are free to hold whatever views we like. The mosque "call to prayer" on the other hand represents a different view that is symbolic and in many ways threatening. If mosques are prepared to subsidiarise themselves to Britishness, in the way that Christianity subsidiarises itself to democracy (flying a union jack on the roof) then maybe we can debate "call to prayer" on the basis of noise rather than as a symbol of "tolerance"

[Churchill]

GingerRogers,

'I'm not sure if you're just taking the pi55 but why should I integrate with foreigners in my own country?',

I'll give you a little lesson in life,

if you learn to lead by example, to take the high ground, to rise above the rest with dignity, your life and career will benefit from it

he who sews Rodders, he who sews

Milan.

Is that the same as "A stitch in time"?

Spelling dickhead, spelling!

[sasguru]

Is that the same as "A stitch in time"?

Spelling dickhead, spelling!

See my post on previous page

[beaker]

Absolutely - I see it from both sides, hence why I'm probably more tolerant than most.

I thought you would, which explains your more liberal attitude to foreigners doing the same here.