The shape of things to come....

[Sysman]

Jehovas Witnesses shouldn't be allowed to knock on your door?

I'm all in favour of that proposal. Same goes for Mormons.

They are yet another example of people trying to push their religion down your throats, and they try to do it in your own home.

[gingerjedi]

This is a fairly new phenomenon. I don't recall covered up Muslims in the 80s and yet there were quite a few back then.

Where I live I don't recall seeing any Muslims pre 9/11 other than in documentaries about plane hijackings in the 70's... maybe they just blended in better then?

Come to think of it I hadn't seen a black man in the flesh until I was about 5... Oh what a sheltered life I lead in sleepy Somerset.

[BankingContractor]

There are ghettos everywhere. And some are not even based on race or religion, but wealth.

You get gated residences where only the wealthy are allowed in. Some luxury apartments have social housing as a condition of their planning, and so have different entrances for "social residents", different lifts (i know one where the lift goes from 1-7 for social housing, and the luxury lift which goes from floors 8-35 or something). So already, you have people in the same apartment blocks, segregated based on wealth.

I think you should look up the etmology for "ghetto" and see which people it origianlly refers to. They lived and still live according to the laws of their tradition, so why should it be different for anyone else.

There’s probably more than a little paranoia and propaganda in the following observation, but word in the meedya today is that what you describe could lead to Muslim ghettos. That is, the non-Muslims moving out. My own take on the issue is that chanting Christians concern me as much as Muslims doing their thing, so I dislike them all equally.

[Xenophon]

You get gated residences where only the wealthy are allowed in.

Just like where Xeno Towers is located.



It is great.

[Xenophon]

Wise words. Once a Native American Chief served me a hamburger and it was cold.

It wasn't a hamburger...

[The Lone Gunman]

BC: There are lots of us Brits who work hard and have cloe families that support each other and have strong moral values.
The thugs and chavs you refer to are as anathema to us as are the muslims.
The British/Englishness we wish to preserve is one where those who do not hold with our values are not allowed to change our culture to suit them.
I am sick to death of PC lies dragging us into situations just because some pillock with idealogical issues screams loud enough.

SA: The difference between the British ghettos abroad and the "insert ethnic origin" ghetos in th UK is that the Brits abroad are self sufficient and do not demand the locals provide support in English for them. Nor are the ex-pat communities no go areas for the locals, in fact many are popular with the locals because the communities are often friendly.
I have not visited ex pat communities in Spain or Portugal, though I have friends in both.
I would also recommend that your parents do try to learn the local language as the must be getting on a bit (not saying they are old) and when they have a medical eergency they may not get an English spaking doctor and you wouldnt want to get "I think I am having a heart attack" mixed up with "Me chalfonts are playing up".

[Cyberman]

This is really only the concern of local residents, and should be treated as a community issue. Similiar to a planning application where only the concened parties are allowed to air their grievences.

If the MAJORITY of local residents are in favour of the minaret, then it should go ahead. It doesn't matter what the issue is, we live in a democracy and the majority vote should be allowed to stand.

Can't believe the narrow mindedness of some people on this forum. Lots of muslims I know are level-headed, hard working and family orientated people.

To address the balance of this thread, I'll speak for the 'other side', see what people make of it.

- Go to any High St on a Fri/Sat night, and you'll be hard pushed to find a muslim getting p!ssed or drunk causing problems for everyone.

- Look at their family structure (also for Sikhs & Hindus) and they always look after their elders, whilst we just shove our parents in a home.

- Hard working, and putting in long hours. Can't imagine too many of us doing what they do.

So they're not that bad after all. I think our 'Britishness' is in doubt because we don't know what it means to be British. Getting drunk, spending all hours in the pub, teeenage pregnancies, hoodies, pornography, football hooliganism - by and large, this is not caused by muslims, and for me, these are qualities I wish we embrased more in our society.

I think we need to take a look at ourselves a bit more, and find out what it is we are really trying to protect in our Britishness.

I have seen Muslims drink and get very drunk and even had an attempted assault against me from a drunken Muslim in a public place which I have never suffered from any other adult in the UK, and I hope never happens again. Your views are incredible!!

[GreenerGrass]

or rocking backwards and forwards humming to himself

Isn't that what they do in these Mosques?


P.S. LOL @ BankingContractor's idea that pornography doesn't exist in any Muslim countries.

[DodgyAgent]

This is really only the concern of local residents, and should be treated as a community issue. Similiar to a planning application where only the concened parties are allowed to air their grievences.

If the MAJORITY of local residents are in favour of the minaret, then it should go ahead. It doesn't matter what the issue is, we live in a democracy and the majority vote should be allowed to stand.

Can't believe the narrow mindedness of some people on this forum. Lots of muslims I know are level-headed, hard working and family orientated people.

To address the balance of this thread, I'll speak for the 'other side', see what people make of it.

- Go to any High St on a Fri/Sat night, and you'll be hard pushed to find a muslim getting p!ssed or drunk causing problems for everyone.

- Look at their family structure (also for Sikhs & Hindus) and they always look after their elders, whilst we just shove our parents in a home.

- Hard working, and putting in long hours. Can't imagine too many of us doing what they do.

So they're not that bad after all. I think our 'Britishness' is in doubt because we don't know what it means to be British. Getting drunk, spending all hours in the pub, teeenage pregnancies, hoodies, pornography, football hooliganism - by and large, this is not caused by muslims, and for me, these are qualities I wish we embrased more in our society.

I think we need to take a look at ourselves a bit more, and find out what it is we are really trying to protect in our Britishness.

If you want to move the argument onto whether the muslim way of life is better than the "British way of life" then maybe you can point to one (just one) muslim country that is more civilised, tolerant, and affluent than Britain. What is more Britain is one of the few countries that tries to make allowances for all types of people. The point being made is that the compromise has gone too far.

You can patronise ethnic groups all you like by spinning the positive aspects of their values, but the downsides (you so neatly forget..such as the subjugation of women, intolerance) are such that the values of their religion transcend logic, debate, humour and democracy.

[oracleslave]

If you want to move the argument onto whether the muslim way of life is better than the "British way of life" then maybe you can point to one (just one) muslim country that is more civilised, tolerant, and affluent than Britain. What is more Britain is one of the few countries that tries to make allowances for all types of people. The point being made is that the compromise has gone too far.

You can patronise ethnic groups all you like by spinning the positive aspects of their values, but the downsides (you so neatly forget..such as the subjugation of women, intolerance) are such that the values of their religion transcend logic, debate, humour and democracy.

And here endeth todays lesson. Game set and match Dodgy!