Oh Dear: Is there any other country in Europe where this would cause outrage ?

[AlfredJPruffock]

So yes, Hitler was kind of democratically elected but he then immediately destroyed democracy. This is what fascists do. They use democracy to get power and then smash it. So I'd say they are mutually contradictory.

Hitler's electoral success was mainly due to the German population's disanchantment with the terms of treaty of Versailles - his promise to restore national honour and the re-arnament of Germany and the employment prospects thereof (guns before butter) were no doubt popular.

My point that democracy and fascism are not mutally exclusive remains,however this is true only for democratic states which have a powerful millitary and desire economic expansion - or need to maintain the economic status quo .

Observing the leading most powerful democratics states one can readily see elements of fascism in their Foreign Policy - and to some extent these states have preserved what I would term the 'illusion' of democracy.

Therefore it is possible to have, in effect, a fascist government under the guise of a democracy- this is a rather shrewd move as it lessens the chances of unrest at home and gives a seemingly moral ballast to such actions as the unprovoked invasion of nation states.

So fascism and democracy need not be mutally exclusive.


For example in the USA there are two political partys to represent the interests of 500 million people - why only two political parties ?


No matter whom you vote for - the Government always gets in.

[Old Greg]

So yes, Hitler was kind of democratically elected but he then immediately destroyed democracy. This is what fascists do. They use democracy to get power and then smash it. So I'd say they are mutually contradictory.

Hitler's electoral success was mainly due to the German population's disanchantment with the terms of treaty of Versailles - his promise to restore national honour and the re-arnament of Germany and the employment prospects thereof (guns before butter) were no doubt popular.

My point that democracy and fascism are not mutally eclusive remains,however this is true only for democratic states which have a powerful millitary and desire economic expansion - or need to the economic maintain status quo .

If you observe the leading most powerful democratics states one can readily see elements of fascism in their Foreign Policy - and to some extent these states have preserved what I would term the 'illusion' of democracy.

For example in the USA there are two political partys to represent the interests of 500 million people - why only two political parties ?


No matter whom you vote for - the Government always gets in.

Well I guess political historians probably still haven't hammered this one out. But the Nazis' never won a majority of votes (I know that's the same here but our constituency based system is very different):

July '32 - 37.3%
Nov '32 - 33.1%
Mar '33 - 43.9%

With the last vote conducted under less then democratic conditions.

I agree wholeheartedly about democracy at home with imperialist anti-democratic policies abroad. The British Empire and American intervention in South America are good examples.

As for the USA (300 million I think), 'twas always thus with 2 parties. There are of course lots of parties there but the elctoral system is formed in such a way as to make it difficult to get on the ballot paper, and votes for smaller parties that are on the ballot paper are almost always 'wasted' - I'm sure there are other reasons as well.

[AlfredJPruffock]

2nd point - very intersting thought. It can be argued that the 1930s fascist parties were a vehicle for the state, the political elite, and also industrialists and bankers to preserve the status quo against a perceived threat to their interests ('Jewish' Bolshevism).

Does that apply to today? .

My thoughts are Greg that this does very much apply today - if you substitute Industrial Millitary Complex for the political elite - and Islamists for Jewish Boshevism - we do seem to be in a an age of - for want of a better term - 'Fascism Lite'


However - the fatal flaw as I see in current scenario is that in the grab for Middle East Oil the true challenge of this decade - is the growing danger of and might of Communist China whose influence and danger grows unchecked on a daily basis whilst we bleed in the sands of Arabia.


In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

President of the USA - D Eisenhower

[Bagpuss]

Or maybe Causus Dei (or Casus Dei), Old Greg admires such self-aggrandisement

Well, I like to persevere when I'm meant to be working. So if you can be bothered go to CD's profile, pick up his email address, google it, look at the cached page, you'll find a cricket league site, and that email has a name, address and phone number (not the name I offered up earlier, and I'm now even more confused). How deep does the conspiracy run?

Unlikely to be his real address is it!

[Old Greg]

2nd point - very intersting thought. It can be argued that the 1930s fascist parties were a vehicle for the state, the political elite, and also industrialists and bankers to preserve the status quo against a perceived threat to their interests ('Jewish' Bolshevism).

Does that apply to today? .

My thoughts are Greg that this does very much apply today - if you substitute Industrial Millitary Complex for the political elite - and Islamists for Jewish Boshevism - we do seem to be in a an age of - for want of a better term - 'Fascism Lite'


However - the fatal flaw as I see in current scenario is that in the grab for Middle East Oil the true challenge of this decade - is the growing danger of and might of Communist China whose influence and danger grows unchecked on a daily basis whilst we bleed in the sands of Arabia.


In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

President of the USA - D Eisenhower

Hmmm - well industrial military complex is to me jut a modern manifestation of a section of the political elite, bankers and industrialists. And Islamism substitutes Jewish Bolshevism. But even fascism lite, I'm not sure about (although it may be in the future). Fascism serves a purpose for the power groups, just as parliamentary democracy does - it keeps the status quo and delivers those nice juicy contracts with forein wars. As long as parliamentary democracy continues to deliver, then I reckon we'll carry on as before, perhaps going down a more authoritarian route. Maybe that's fascism lite, but my alarm bells go off when I see people trying to get rid of elections. Democracy might be rubbish, but I prefer to be able to kick out those in power and replace them with a new set of self-serving cretins.

[Causus Deli]

Or maybe Causus Dei (or Casus Dei), Old Greg admires such self-aggrandisement

Well, I like to persevere when I'm meant to be working. So if you can be bothered go to CD's profile, pick up his email address, google it, look at the cached page, you'll find a cricket league site, and that email has a name, address and phone number (not the name I offered up earlier, and I'm now even more confused). How deep does the conspiracy run?

Anyone know how I contact the mods? I know how to contact the eminent prof.

[sasguru]

Anyone know how I contact the mods? I know how to contact the eminent prof.

A thread titled "Mods!" should grab their attention. Although the pigeon has rather flown the coop, don't you think?

[Old Greg]

Anyone know how I contact the mods? I know how to contact the eminent prof.

And what was that searchlight thingie you mentioned?

[Rantor]

A thread titled "Mods!" should grab their attention. Although the pigeon has rather flown the coop, don't you think?

Or is it a double (or triple) bluff?

That's it I'm getting the tinfoil lined balaclava out of storage!

[Old Greg]

Or is it a double (or triple) bluff?

That's it I'm getting the tinfoil lined balaclava out of storage!

I think you'll find it's not where you left it.