Oh Dear: Is there any other country in Europe where this would cause outrage ?

[sasguru]

Once again you attack him and dispell all he says as he is a 'fraud' and 'liar'. Perhaps some elements are real and others imaginary, do you prefer all or nothing arguments?

Let me ask you one question would you be happy for your children if his soothsaying prophecies come true? And back to the original question would you be happy for your children to be in line with the same chance as an Eastern EU worker for local authority housing?

He has been called a liar and a fraud because:

1. He claims to be a Professor of Maths - and he's clearly not
2. His figures, as OG showed, were made up and fraudulent.

I don't for one second believe his prophecies will come true, although I believe the way the world is going we are all going to have to live with people from around the world. The alternative is to be a poor and insular country. And to answer your question, my children would be brought up to stand on their own two feet and not claim any benefits. I certainly would not want them to live in LA housing, just as I wouldn't consider it myself.

[Damp Cave]

And to answer your question, my children would be brought up to stand on their own two feet and not claim any benefits. I certainly would not want them to live in LA housing, just as I wouldn't consider it myself.

Then you are far luckier than the majority in this country, you and yours are clearly all right Jack! We live in a democracy and I can only hope that the not so fortunate Jacks will affect a change so that our own unfortunates can get a start in life and not have to resort to perpetuating the current trend in fecklessness.

[sasguru]

Then you are far luckier than the majority in this country, you and yours are clearly all right Jack! We live in a democracy and I can only hope that the not so fortunate Jacks will affect a change so that our own unfortunates can get a start in life and not have to resort to perpetuating the current trend in fecklessness.

That's the sort of lax thinking that leads to the problem in the first place. If you think that immigrants are sucking on the teat of the state then the problem lies with the state. Toughen things up and:

1) the Uk will not be so attractive a destination for immigrants
2) the feckless locals will have to get on their bike

BTW I don't think scapegoating solves anything. Immigrants are not responsible for the cult of celebrity, "cool" chav culture, the drugs and alcohol lifestyle etc. etc.

[Damp Cave]

If someone is in a hole for whatever reason then why make it more difficult to get out of that hole? Encourage them not discard them. This me me me attitude will in the end catch up with us. As the lower classes get lower and more prevalent they will insist on a redressing of the balance and some cozy little existences will possibly crumble. There is no future in a state with such a disparity in the haves and have-nots. Some level of social disorder will eventually result and that will not be good for anyone. We need to redress now, I suggest limiting the handouts for all and make everyone who can work for their handouts, do so. We appear to be full and so some limitations based on qualifications (serious needs) should be initiated immediately.

I come from a very poor background and consider myself lucky to have escaped somewhat, when I look at my siblings who were not so fortunate I like many cannot see what motivates them to do nothing about their plight. But what encouragement is there, and are they armed with our insight into the solution, no it’s all they know. Well change it and make them work for their handouts. Replacement with cheap imports is not the answer surely.

[sasguru]

Replacement with cheap imports is not the answer surely.

Is that what is happening? I see no evidence. The unemployment rate has not really changed after the Eastern Eurpean influx (and I know it's a fake rate) - but as long as the method of counting has not changed before and during, it seems they are being absorbed by a healthy economy.

PS While I wouldn't say I come from a poor background (father was a teacher), I wasn't exactly born in the lap of luxury either. It's just a Tory background that discouraged reliance on the state to such an extent that it didn't cross my mind.

[Damp Cave]

We all agree they should get off their arses, but they are not doing it. What do we do with a problem, ignore it and hope it goes away? Unemployment I have heard is rising all the time (no ref, not important really).

[Damp Cave]

This is one of the problems we need to address, these are long term unemployed playing the system.

That was confirmed in a recent paper by Christina Beatty and Stephen Fothergill of the Centre for Regional Economic and Social Research at Sheffield Hallam University. It says that Britain now has more than 2.5 million non-employed adults of working age who claim sickness-related benefits -- a total that ``questions contemporary perceptions of the UK labour market'' and points to ``extensive hidden unemployment.''

As the authors rightly say, the numbers claiming Britain's so- called incapacity benefit are ``truly astonishing.'' In 1981, there were 570,000 people receiving the benefit for more than six months. By 2003, that figure had risen to 2.13 million. In addition, there were 300,000 recipients of the Severe Disablement Allowance, and 200,000 short-term claimants of the incapacity benefit, the report shows.

2.7 Million Recipients

According to Beatty and Fothergill, almost 2.7 million non- employed people of working age were receiving sickness-related benefits in August last year. That's closer to 10 percent of the 28 million employed people in the U.K. -- a number that puts the stated 2.9 percent unemployment rate in a different light.

Full text here


http://www.mosler.org/wwwboard/messages/1266.shtml

[The Lone Gunman]

Is that what is happening? I see no evidence. The unemployment rate has not really changed after the Eastern Eurpean influx (and I know it's a fake rate) - but as long as the method of counting has not changed before and during, it seems they are being absorbed by a healthy economy.

Sort of agree there, though I interpret it slightly differently. What I see is that wages are too low.
Local population can not afford to work.
Incomers have much lower overheads so can take these low paid jobs.
As I have said befoe, if corporates were to lower their profit margins and pay better wages or spread their bonuses wider then more people could afford to work.
Remember "It's expensive being poor" attr T.V. Smith.

[Damp Cave]

If you improve wages without an uneven playing field our own workshy/kids will not stand a chance. People moving from another country to seek work are not representative of the workforce and will eat our own alive in the job market. I see this with some of my friends kids at the mo, can’t get a job any of them, of course they are useless but that’s the education system we need to work on. More and more will fall into the trap in the next few years and effectively give up.

[Damp Cave]

What Blink have to say.

http://www.blink.org.uk/bm/manifesto...on.asp?catid=7