Migrants - should I give a toss?

[wendigo100]

Employment Protection Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said he took the findings "most seriously". Any firm found to have breached minimum standards of "dignity and respect" would be "taken to task", he said.

I never knew the govt had minimum standards of dignity and respect...

You are quite right, although I wouldn't put it past this government to introduce some woolly, incomprehendible and completely unworkable legislation about it one day!

Labour Arse Talk

[The Lone Gunman]

Philip Green earns his money he doesnt take it. Taxes are taken. People like Philip Green create wealth. If front line staff are on minimum wages then why dont they retrain, start their own business (like Green, Branson and Sugar did)or change job. The beauty of our system is that we are free to do what we like (at the moment).

Unfortunately people with your attitude see people like phillip green as a threat and want to destroy or at best control them, and they are driven only by envy. Cutting people like Green down to size destroys wealth creation. The problems that business and wealth creation face are that there are not enough people like Green.

And before you start your leftie whine about exploitation (minimum wage), outsourcing to India pause and think how you personally benefit (cheap clothes, cheap food, multiple consumer choice) from it all.

I am doing well this week, you have had a go about me being right wing (BNP thread) and now left too.
I do not see how P. Green can justify the amount he earns when he pays minimum wage to his staff.
I also take issue with your point about cheap goods.
I want to be able to buy my goods from the countries where they are manufactured rather than from P. Green as his mark up is ridiculous. Were I able to do so Mr Greens bonus would not be quite so good now would it.

I am not having a go at a specific here, just using an example.

I do believe that the captains of industry have a claim to their bonuses, they would not get their bonuses if ther businesses were doing badly (though some do), what I am saying is that all the staff contribute to how well the company does not just the execs. Just how many millions would he have to take before you questioned his profit margins.

If the Greens of this world were passing on a bit of the profit to the rest of the labour force there would be no need to import or exploit workers. Eventualy it wont matter how cheap the labour is, tthe business will close in the UK because there will be no local who can afford to buy as they are out of work. Extrapolate to catastrophic deflation.


[edit] I wont be saying anymore as I am about to set off home.

[lilelvis2000]

The multiples of pay between upper management/executives has been widening for decades. Here the manager earns 2x his most senior accountant. And this place has reasonable low executive salaries - the chief exec. earns a paltry £500K before bonus. unlike the millions made elsewhere.

I suppose one could ask, are you happy with your work and company, would you be happy if paid less, are you jealous of other executives salaries, if so why and will being paid more make you happy.

But that's capitalism for you. If a person is essential to your success - somehow you've come to that conclusion - then you've got to cough up the dough or he/she moves on to someone who will. Most of Phil Green's front end (customer facing) staff are low-skilled (or are performing a low skill job) and are easily replaced and the company success is not based on them at all, hence the puny pay.

Bill Gates always amazed me - his salary was quite low - but yet he was the most important person in the company.

[DodgyAgent]

There is no point overpaying people. It makes them complacement and they do not appreciate it anyway. If they dont like the job or the pay then there is nothing to stop them from asking for more, proving they are worth more or getting another job or starting their own business like Green himself did.

Once you start questioning the morality of people like Philip Green's earnings then you really need to put a figure on it. Is £10.50 a week, £10 million a day or £50 squillions a minute. It is not a definitive pot that we all share out . Go down this path It could be easily argued that you LG are overpaid, which compared to a Somaili farmer one could easily argue that your wages are disgusting.

I have no problem with people like Green whatsoever. If he was worth a £trillion a minute then fine. Are Mcartney or Bono worth what they earn? Are you worth what you earn. If you start to judge others you need to be pretty sure of what you are judging them against.

The people I object to are those who run monopolies (public sector) who are not accountable yet earn large amounts of money.

Philip Green earning £50 million a year has more morality on his side than the head of a failing NHS trust earning £200,000 a year.

As I say there is no logic or good behind controlling people like Phillip Green. Those who wish to trim his sails are driven by fear and/or envy. He may be a knob but just like you or I he craps and pisses and will one day peg it. Let him get on with his life and you get on with yours, because he like Mccartney and Bono (except when he is on his guilt trip of debt relief) are a benign prescence in society

[threaded]

Philip Green earning £50 million a year has more morality on his side than the head of a failing NHS trust earning £200,000 a year.

I don't know about that. I believe most NHS trusts are set up to fail, so it's just a case of how badly they fail and in which way...

[TwoWolves]

The establishment starts to awaken

[gingerjedi]

There is no point overpaying people. It makes them complacement and they do not appreciate it anyway. If they dont like the job or the pay then there is nothing to stop them from asking for more, proving they are worth more or getting another job or starting their own business like Green himself did.

Straight from the horses mouth, I bet you use that one next time you try to increase your margin... I don't think.

The John Lewis partnership is a good example of a happy workforce getting decent pay and conditions, not everyone has the no-how or social skills to succeed in business and it takes a certain ruthlessness that a lot of people with high moral and social standards simply would not have... so I guess they are condemned to a life of being exploited, after all its only fair.

[DodgyAgent]

The establishment starts to awaken

It is basically a fight over the power of governments to raise taxation. In a globalised economy governments power is diminished as companies can move to wherever they wish. What this book acknowledges is that wealthy countries will end up becoming poor countries. So what. When India and China become rich and powerful they will then start offshoring all their back office functions to the USA and the uk, which means that you lot will be back in work again

There are a lot of things that present challenges to globalisation and this guy is not dealing with them (global monopolies being the most Dangerous). It is up to govts not to control by force but to create an environment that incentivises businesse to stay and to invest.

[TwoWolves]

Not that simple DA, read that again.

[DodgyAgent]

Straight from the horses mouth, I bet you use that one next time you try to increase your margin... I don't think.

The John Lewis partnership is a good example of a happy workforce getting decent pay and conditions, not everyone has the no-how or social skills to succeed in business and it takes a certain ruthlessness that a lot of people with high moral and social standards simply would not have... so I guess they are condemned to a life of being exploited, after all its only fair.

Keeping staff happy is very much key to running a succesful business. This does not mean overpaying staff. Just because someone who is earning £15K per annum running the post room does not mean that they are being exploited.

What you seem to fail to understand is that not everyone wants to earn Philip Greens money; that most of us are quite happy, contented and secure in ourselves (which he is not) earning what we earn. It is thanks to people like philip green that we can go through life working as a shop assistant if we wish to (being exploited as you call it.. though if someone told me that I was being exploited earning £20 k a year I would impolitely tell them that no one exploits me and that I am perfectly happy with my earnings as there are other things in my life that are more important than money)

People like Philip Green are deeply insecure and competitive people. Being rich and powerful is what is important to them. In my view they are sad people and not people I would choose as friends. They are useful (unlike similarly ambitious but incompetent politicians) because they create wealth and jobs. I know a few very rich people but I have very little in common with them (especially with regards to money ), but they are strange people, who have few friends.

Let them have their money, after all it is because of them that we can all become shop assistants if we want to.