Migrants - should I give a toss?

[DodgyAgent]

I
Could you explain how and why I am bigoted Dodgy, I had considered myself to be rather reasonable.

For a start you spin capitalism and the drive for profits as "greed" (very BBC and Guardian) which reveals more about your own attitude than it contributes to any debate. After all you are one of the richest earners in the world who incidentally carries little accountability for the work you do. By your own argument this makes you one of the greediest people in existence.

The ability for the UK to import workers is nothing to with it. It is like saying if no one was allowed to live there would be no murders. These people are breaking the law and it is the governments responsibility to sort it out.

[realityhack]

This whole thing shows how ineffectual legislation can be if no one is going to police it.

Completely agree with you there - that would appear to be the key problem. The legislation is there to protect migrant workers, but not enough is done to educate them re employment rights before they set off or once they're here, and not enough is done to police the gangmaster companies, by the DTI or the Police.

Hence the problem. There will always be ppl in society ready to exploit others, as contractors know all too well.

[xoggoth]

One would have thought the govt paying for a bit of publicity in some countries would be a darn site cheaper than trying to get rid of them once here.

[The Lone Gunman]

For a start you spin capitalism and the drive for profits as "greed" (very BBC and Guardian) which reveals more about your own attitude than it contributes to any debate. After all you are one of the richest earners in the world who incidentally carries little accountability for the work you do. By your own argument this makes you one of the greediest people in existence.

The ability for the UK to import workers is nothing to with it. It is like saying if no one was allowed to live there would be no murders. These people are breaking the law and it is the governments responsibility to sort it out.

I see excessive profits as greed Dodgy, pure and simple. If that is bigotry then I am a bigot. I do not have a problem with profit, I do have a problem with excessive profit.
Other tags you are hanging on me are from you rown imagiantion and I will ignore.

My bigoted stance.
When a companies drive for profit gives rise to this kind of exploitation then there is something wrong.
When a company making millions in profit for its share holders is saving pennies by putting extra pressure on suppliers, sometimes putting them out of business then something is wrong.
When executives are being paid million pound bonuses but the workers are on minimum wage then something is wrong.

That something is greed. Greed for ever increasing profits and sod the consequences.
Year on year we see profits rise in businesses.
Year on year we see wages stagnate, reduce or offshore.
Year on year we see increasing prices.

You are right, there is law to deal with much of this, but there is little will to enforce it.
There should be no need for such law.

Bagpuss: Did I get that right, you actualy agreed with me? Not a regular occurance these days.

[andy]

It would helped their cause if they show the same program in their home countries to stop future migrants who may be exploited.

[DodgyAgent]

I see excessive profits as greed Dodgy, pure and simple. If that is bigotry then I am a bigot. I do not have a problem with profit, I do have a problem with excessive profit.
Other tags you are hanging on me are from you rown imagiantion and I will ignore.

My bigoted stance.
When a companies drive for profit gives rise to this kind of exploitation then there is something wrong.
When a company making millions in profit for its share holders is saving pennies by putting extra pressure on suppliers, sometimes putting them out of business then something is wrong.
When executives are being paid million pound bonuses but the workers are on minimum wage then something is wrong.

That something is greed. Greed for ever increasing profits and sod the consequences.
Year on year we see profits rise in businesses.
Year on year we see wages stagnate, reduce or offshore.
Year on year we see increasing prices.

You are right, there is law to deal with much of this, but there is little will to enforce it.
There should be no need for such law.

Bagpuss: Did I get that right, you actualy agreed with me? Not a regular occurance these days.

So LG define the difference between profit and excessive profit. I can see the point that you are trying to make but you are using the wrong arguments to make it. I am taking you to task on this because this is exactly the sort of psychological rhetoric that socialists use to screw money out of us.

They first of all spin profit ,self reliance or personal responsibility into "greed" or "selfishness". They then make us feel guilty and concerned and thus pleased to surrender our hard earned dosh (without question) in taxes. They then sqyuander this money on increasing their own power and influence.

[milanbenes]

wrong there,

only a fraction come from Czech Rep, their economic situation is very good, Czechs are doing very well, and enjoying massive EU investment.

The majority are coming from Poland, ~40 million people, high unemployment, low FDI etc

Milan.

[The Lone Gunman]

So LG define the difference between profit and excessive profit.

That is the difficult question, but when Phlip Green takes the (untaxed) bonuses he takes whilst his front line staff are on minmum wage and he is forcing global competition on his suppliers then there is something wrong.

I do not claim to have an answer, but I can see there is something wrong.

Whilst nobody is making the link between corporate profit margins and this kind of exploitation nothing will be done.

[edit] I don't mind being taken to task, but lets cut out the little digs eh?

[milanbenes]

less regulation is the best, let the free market decide

and rightly so if these people don't want these jobs then why not go home ?

Milan.

[DodgyAgent]

If it's so bad for them then they should go home. i know that sounds like something some thickie National Front spokesman would say, but these people don't have it so bad. Sure they come from impoverished countries such as Poland Czech Rep. etc but being poor in Eastern Europe now is very different to being poor in Eastern Europe 60 years ago. People are not dying of starvation or disease. They want DVD players, that's why they come here.

A lot of them cannot get home because these agencies take their passports and they ensure that they only earn enough to get by. They also keep them in debt and there is no doubt that most of them are too scared to run away.

Before you get too carried away then ask yourself what you would have done in their circumstances. These are not muslim terrorists or feckless migrants that expect to receive benefits, they are hard working people and they are quite entitled to live and work here. It will not be long before the economies of these countries overtake our own and people like you begin to follow the golden path to their borders.