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Migrants - should I give a toss?

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    Migrants - should I give a toss?

    Emotive BBC language comparing slavery to a bunch of chancers who've found out the hard way that the streets of the UK are not lined with gold
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6593321.stm


    Migrant workers are being lured to Britain by deception and are forming a new exploited underclass, a BBC investigation has discovered.

    Undercover Lithuanian journalist Audrius Lelkaitis discovered a new form of people trafficking, systematic underpayment and exploitation.

    Human trafficking experts said the conditions suffered by some migrant workers was "modern-day slavery".
    How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think

    #2
    Yes you should give a toss.

    These exploited people deserve our sympathy and assistance.
    They have come to the UK genuinely believing there is good honest work.
    They have been used and abused.
    But you don't have to care about them if ypou don't want to.

    You should care about the underlying problems that this story is symptomatic of.

    UK business is greedy.
    The big players are setting prices they will pay for goods.
    The UK has been forced to try and compete on a global scale, the only way for many is to reduce labour costs.
    The EU is so bent on expansion that it is willing to let any third world nation join.
    At the same time UK (and EU) business is demanding that the UK (and EU) consumer can not source their goods from outside the EU.


    Can you follow it from that starting point or do I need to go further?
    I am not qualified to give the above advice!

    The original point and click interface by
    Smith and Wesson.

    Step back, have a think and adjust my own own attitude from time to time

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
      Yes you should give a toss.

      These exploited people deserve our sympathy and assistance.
      They have come to the UK genuinely believing there is good honest work.
      They have been used and abused.
      But you don't have to care about them if ypou don't want to.

      You should care about the underlying problems that this story is symptomatic of.

      UK business is greedy.
      The big players are setting prices they will pay for goods.
      The UK has been forced to try and compete on a global scale, the only way for many is to reduce labour costs.
      The EU is so bent on expansion that it is willing to let any third world nation join.
      At the same time UK (and EU) business is demanding that the UK (and EU) consumer can not source their goods from outside the EU.


      Can you follow it from that starting point or do I need to go further?
      Nice list of meaningless cliches that do nothing other than to reveal your own bigotry. Try constructing an argument LG
      Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DodgyAgent
        Nice list of meaningless cliches that do nothing other than to reveal your own bigotry. Try constructing an argument LG
        What do you mean DA? I cannot see much bigotry there. Anyone would think you were an agent!

        I heard about this fellow on the radio this morning, and TLG is right - they are being exploited and many effectively work for nothing.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by wendigo100
          What do you mean DA? I cannot see much bigotry there. Anyone would think you were an agent!

          I heard about this fellow on the radio this morning, and TLG is right - they are being exploited and many effectively work for nothing.
          I saw the program last night and the behaviour of these gangs and recruitment agencies was deplorable as is thebehaviour of the employers who obviously turn a blind eye. I was refering to LGs comments. This whole thing shows how ineffectual legislation can be if no one is going to police it.

          The BBC also love all this just as they enjoyed exposing the telephone scams with regards to GMTV. Any opportunity to bash capitalism and they will take it. Did they expose the Blue Peter con during Panorama BTW?
          Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

          Comment


            #6
            Agree the legislation is there, but the political will is not. I would suggest the politicians in charge in the UK are really quite pleased this is happening. Look forward to security being increased with these immigrants having their cameras and phones confiscated so that reports like this cannot recur.
            Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
            threadeds website, and here's my blog.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
              UK business is greedy.
              No, it is profit-driven like any business. In most capitalist countries there is a constant struggle to find a balance between profitable business practices and some sort of social responsibility. The latter is increasingly losing out as we have a global playing field increasing the pressure and temptation to pursue profits at any cost.

              Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
              The big players are setting prices they will pay for goods.
              In agriculture - yes it happens - but for manufactured goods other countries are pumping em out cheap due to low labour costs.Will this last forever?

              Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
              The UK has been forced to try and compete on a global scale, the only way for many is to reduce labour costs.
              Er, who hasn't been forced down this route? Other options abound (hi-tech/bio industries, services etc.) but for goods and services provided elsewhere much cheaper we have no future. How we provide our internal services is another matter.

              Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
              The EU is so bent on expansion that it is willing to let any third world nation join.
              This is drivel, though to be fair it is a view shared by most of what dubya refers to as old Europe. Do you think that Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania have a history or culture outside the wider European context? Maybe they are in a shabby state at the moment but Italy was in worse shape when it joined the initial European bloc not forgetting Greece, Portrugal etc.

              Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
              At the same time UK (and EU) business is demanding that the UK (and EU) consumer can not source their goods from outside the EU.
              How, when where and how does this square with the globally stuff above?

              Not saying exploitation of people trying to improve their lot is a good thing by any means but I can't follow your reasoning at all.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DodgyAgent
                Nice list of meaningless cliches that do nothing other than to reveal your own bigotry. Try constructing an argument LG
                I do not see anything bigoted there Dodgy! I also asume you are incapable of forming those points into an argument, I had thought you brighter than that.
                I don't have much time today but I will try.

                You do need to see that all those points relate to each other. This is not just a UK problem either.
                To maximise profit business needs to reduce costs for many the only variable is labour costs.
                The UK labour market has a certain amount of overheads which sets a bottom line at which it can work. Lets not get into the dole pays more than working argument, though I understand the point.
                Therefore business needs to import workers who do not have these overheads.

                This leaves the door wide open to unsrupulous gang masters (and agents ) who promise the world but deliver low paid menial tasks.
                For the criminal element the result is the original BBC story.

                I put some of the blame on EU expansion as a number of the newer members are in such a poor state that its residents are more than willing to work abroad. The rates they are willing to work at are dependant on the same things the rates I am willing to work at. Cost of living locally and the lifestyle I am maintaining at home.
                As the cost of living in some of these newer states is minimal they can come and undercut locals. If they are willing to live comunaly then they can reduce their local costs too.
                The EU is being marketed beyond its borders and we should not be surprised that economic migrants (like myself) are hearing the message. Some of these people are open to exploitation.

                I put a lot of the blame on globalisation and corporate greed because I do not see a level playing field between suppliers and consumers.
                The large corporations trawl the worlds markets for goods and buy at the cheapest local rate. They then take those goods back to their home markets and sell them at local rates at enormous profit.
                The consumer can not trawl the global markets and buy at the cheapest local rate as the EU has subscribed to a trade mark and licence deal which means the corporations can dictate where a product can be sold.

                I see this leading to a doom scenario. Eventualy the entire system will collapse.

                Could you explain how and why I am bigoted Dodgy, I had considered myself to be rather reasonable.
                I am not qualified to give the above advice!

                The original point and click interface by
                Smith and Wesson.

                Step back, have a think and adjust my own own attitude from time to time

                Comment


                  #9
                  Selfish Capitalism at its best. What do you do as a business when your labours costs are your biggest expense? exploit an area of little or no enforcement.

                  As long a corporations must constantly raise the bar on profits each year..this will carry on until they can't lower labour costs anymore. At which point things go overseas. or the govt. caves in and increases farm subsidies.

                  I'm not sure where the globlisation fits in. All I see is a "keeping up with the joneses" effect in capital markets. Agriculture is highly subsidised so as to keep foriegn suppliers out of the market.
                  McCoy: "Medical men are trained in logic."
                  Spock: "Trained? Judging from you, I would have guessed it was trial and error."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by DodgyAgent
                    I saw the program last night and the behaviour of these gangs and recruitment agencies was deplorable as is thebehaviour of the employers who obviously turn a blind eye. I was refering to LGs comments. This whole thing shows how ineffectual legislation can be if no one is going to police it.

                    The BBC also love all this just as they enjoyed exposing the telephone scams with regards to GMTV. Any opportunity to bash capitalism and they will take it. Did they expose the Blue Peter con during Panorama BTW?
                    Yes they did, and one on a cooking programme.

                    Back on subject, LG is right here. Open labour markets shouldn't mean a free for all, where the law is disguarded.

                    These people at least want to work, unlike the lazy coonts on social who should be doing those jobs.
                    Last edited by Bagpuss; 26 April 2007, 09:15.
                    The court heard Darren Upton had written a letter to Judge Sally Cahill QC saying he wasn’t “a typical inmate of prison”.

                    But the judge said: “That simply demonstrates your arrogance continues. You are typical. Inmates of prison are people who are dishonest. You are a thoroughly dishonestly man motivated by your own selfish greed.”

                    Comment

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