Now we're going back to the 1970s

[malvolio]

making Tory cronies richer.

Except that's the sad SM phrase that everyone uses when they want to prove they don't understand economics. People get rich by growing businesses, growing businesses employ more people, all those people are spending money and paying taxes. he people that started that cycle get the most because they took all the risks at some point. If they hadn't none of their employees would have a job and would not be paying taxes.

Labour's basic philosophy is that those that earn stuff should pay for those that don't (or, increasingly, won't). That is a fine aim, except at some point someone has to start the cycle...

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Except that's the sad SM phrase that everyone uses when they want to prove they don't understand economics. People get rich by growing businesses, growing businesses employ more people, all those people are spending money and paying taxes. he people that started that cycle get the most because they took all the risks at some point. If they hadn't none of their employees would have a job and would not be paying taxes.

Labour's basic philosophy is that those that earn stuff should pay for those that don't (or, increasingly, won't). That is a fine aim, except at some point someone has to start the cycle...

You're countering an (admittedly) oversimplification with another. In it's purest form, you describe a great version of capitalism, but the actual world doesn't work that way. Many so called wealth-creators are nothing of the sort (except for themselves).

I'd love to hear about all the good things Thatcher spent the extra taxation on.

[malvolio]

I'd love to hear about all the good things Thatcher spent the extra taxation on.

You still don't understand the 0s, do you. The govenment wasn't spending taxes on "stuff".

We went from high interest to low interest rates (meaning people could buy houses), inflation from double figures to 2.5%, national debt (the gap between government income and borrowing) down to near zero, London becoming the world's financial centre and a lot of smaller stuff. Unlike Labour, we weren't spending tax income on people, we had money in the economy that people could spend for themselves and eough reserves that welfare was available for those that needed it.

Labour took over in the 90s and ran with the status quo for quite a while, until Brown started spending the accumulated wealth in the economy. then selling off the gold reserves and screwing the world's best pension scheme and putting the NHS and schools in hock to PFI schemes forever.

There were lots of things wrong across the board socially but capitalism was not the driver of that. And yes, some people got stupidly rich - but being envious of them because you didn't does not mean Thatcher and Howe's policies were wrong.

[sadkingbilly]

Unlike Labour, we weren't spending tax income on people, we had money in the economy

you were in Thatchers cabinet then??

[malvolio]

you were in Thatchers cabinet then??

Oh yes. We kept it in the dining room and very nice it was...

[NotAllThere]

Are there still Gnomes in Zurich?

Yes.

[WTFH]

you were in Thatchers cabinet then??

10 Trickle down economics works.
20 GOTO 10

Keep repeating until you can offshore your profits while blaming anyone who works and pays taxes in the UK

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You still don't understand the 0s, do you. The govenment wasn't spending taxes on "stuff".

We went from high interest to low interest rates (meaning people could buy houses), inflation from double figures to 2.5%, national debt (the gap between government income and borrowing) down to near zero, London becoming the world's financial centre and a lot of smaller stuff. Unlike Labour, we weren't spending tax income on people, we had money in the economy that people could spend for themselves and eough reserves that welfare was available for those that needed it.

Labour took over in the 90s and ran with the status quo for quite a while, until Brown started spending the accumulated wealth in the economy. then selling off the gold reserves and screwing the world's best pension scheme and putting the NHS and schools in hock to PFI schemes forever.

There were lots of things wrong across the board socially but capitalism was not the driver of that. And yes, some people got stupidly rich - but being envious of them because you didn't does not mean Thatcher and Howe's policies were wrong.

So what good things did Thatcher spend the tax revenues on exactly? Apparently it wasn't "stuff" or "people", so what?

I am 64 by the way so I did live through some of this.

Also the classic "it's envy" sneering - presumably based on the bible telling us envy is bad - I seem to recall some mention of greed in the good book too?

[malvolio]

So what good things did Thatcher spend the tax revenues on exactly? Apparently it wasn't "stuff" or "people", so what?

I am 64 by the way so I did live through some of this.

Also the classic "it's envy" sneering - presumably based on the bible telling us envy is bad - I seem to recall some mention of greed in the good book too?

So you think HMG buys stuff from some international Tesco?

Mostly it went on reducing taxation in several areas, creating more revenue by freeing up money for you and me to spend and for others to invest. Mostly it went on reducing borrowing to fund routine expenditure; armies and welfare cost money, they don't create it, only the economically illiterate don't understand that.

Burnham is rapidly discovering that cutting something like VAT on energy bills costs something but thanks to his immediate predecessors' incompetence he doesn't have the money to do it. Hence, probably, another round of tax rises and cuts in services. Come back in three months and we'll see how he's getting on.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Come back in three months and we'll see how he's getting on.

You think it'll take that long? I'm not so sure. .