Are professional references pointless now?

[elliotw1990]

Honest question. When you finish a contract, does your reputation carry forward in any real way, or does it basically reset to zero each time?

Been thinking about how broken the reference system feels. Employers give good ones to get rid of people, candidates list mates as former managers, and everyone just goes through the motions.

Curious whether you guys feel the same or if I’m missing something.

[NotAllThere]

Aw. Bless.

I asked my French boss when I was working in France for a reference. He looked at me.

- Are you a domestic worker?
- No...
- Well, I like you. You write it, I'll sign it.

In France references were only used for domestic workers. Servant. That was 1995.

References have always been useless. People who know who you are, know who you are. And precisely for that reason, since I'd had a very lucrative contract for 15 years, I quit as a contractor. You have to move around to be known. I went with a recent client as a permie.

[elliotw1990]

References have always been useless I agree! But it doesn’t stop a lot of employers still asking for them.. whether it’s contract work or even as an FTE

[Protagoras]

References have always been pointless. Many firms now will provide no more than employment dates and job title.

Who needs a reference for a contractor that can be let go at the end of the week - or sooner - if not up to the job?

[Ketto]

References are pointless i’d say. A network though…. priceless. Pretty much every gig over the last 6 years has been through people i have worked with before.

[WTFH]

References are pointless i’d say. A network though…. priceless. Pretty much every gig over the last 6 years has been through people i have worked with before.

A good network and a good reputation with other contractors has got me most of my work over the last couple of decades. It's quite common for clients to ask their current tranche of contractors if anyone knows of someone who is available with a certain skill set, or the flip side is that someone applies for a role and the client asks their current contractors if anyone knows that person. It's not a reference, it's a personal recommendation.

[Dorkeaux]

A good network and a good reputation with other contractors has got me most of my work over the last couple of decades. It's quite common for clients to ask their current tranche of contractors if anyone knows of someone who is available with a certain skill set, or the flip side is that someone applies for a role and the client asks their current contractors if anyone knows that person. It's not a reference, it's a personal recommendation.

All good points.

I've tried hard to keep referees from all my past engagements sweet, but for the past few years no one has shown the least interest in calling them up personally.
They used to, but don't seem to now. Because it would involve speaking to someone on the "phone".

It doesn't stop the vetting process from getting increasingly intrusive, though.
These days, they like to check that your HMRC records match your CV.

They will also check with your previous employer's HR dept to verify your time of employment and job title.
For outside IR35 contracts, a note from my accountant serves.
For inside IR35 contracts the umbrella companies have pretty slick reference services.

But yeah, a quiet word from a previous colleague is normally the way these days.

[ladymuck]

Current gig had a torturous process for references via Adecco. An agency who are so geared up for permanent recruitment that I was surprised the contract didn't mention it too.

They wanted 5 years employment references. I mentioned that I haven't been employed for over 20 years, having been working via my own Limited Company for that time. You'd think this was some new way of working by the way they reacted and fussed about how they could tick all their compliance check boxes.

I got this gig because I know the hiring product manager. This is how I get most of my work. So there is something to be said for having a good working reputation but professional references are (at best) some agency box ticking exercise or (at worst) a fishing exercise from an agency desperate for leads.

[courtg9000]

but professional references are (at best) some agency box ticking exercise or (at worst) a fishing exercise from an agency desperate for leads.

^^^^^THIS!^^^^^