shock news

[jamesbrown]

FTFY

This "banter" between you and SKB is becoming very tedious, mainly because it's so dimwitted and humourless. The pair of you should probably just sod off, and take gricer with you.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Now now, some of gricer's epics about recumbent bicycles (saw one the other day), bubble fronted dmus, and banana suit were mildly diverting in their time. The A303, less so. .

[GJABS]

I'm not sure I understand why we are very concerned about Russia invading Ukraine. It is a war. There are hundreds of wars going on all around the world all the time, and we don't get involved unless it threatens our national interests. What's different about Russia and Ukraine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rmed_conflicts

In addition this is not the first time Russia and Ukraine have had an armed conflict. Back in 1921 they also fought:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...0%93Soviet_War

The outcome was that Ukraine lost its independence, becoming a constituent country in the newly formed Soviet Union, lasting for 80 years. I don't believe Britain, Europe, or America got involved in that 1921 war.

[malvolio]

I'm not sure I understand why we are very concerned about Russia invading Ukraine. It is a war. There are hundreds of wars going on all around the world all the time, and we don't get involved unless it threatens our national interests. What's different about Russia and Ukraine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rmed_conflicts

In addition this is not the first time Russia and Ukraine have had an armed conflict. Back in 1921 they also fought:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...0%93Soviet_War

The outcome was that Ukraine lost its independence, becoming a constituent country in the newly formed Soviet Union, lasting for 80 years. I don't believe Britain, Europe, or America got involved in that 1921 war.

I think the treaty of Versailles had a bit to do with that... ICBW.

So what you are saying is that all the various countries, including the Ukraine, that got annexed or absorbed after the Russian Revolution that created the USSR should all meekly return to Putin's Russia? And that all those now independent countries are none of our concern.

Ukraine has huge mineral wealth, and was until Putin stuck his ore in a major supplier of grain and other foodstuffs as well as energy to the rest of Europe. You may recall the economic damage the war caused to the world economy?

Incidentally, Trump's plan is to blackmail the Ukraine into handing over 50% at least of its natural resources to the USA and sod the rest of the world.

So you're right. Nothing to do with us.

[GJABS]

So what you are saying is that all the various countries, including the Ukraine, that got annexed or absorbed after the Russian Revolution that created the USSR should all meekly return to Putin's Russia?

Well I think Ukraine has a right to refuse Russia's demands, and a right to defend itself if Russia attacks them (as they have done). What I'm less sure about is whether we have a moral obligation to help Ukraine.

[malvolio]

Well I think Ukraine has a right to refuse Russia's demands, and a right to defend itself if Russia attacks them (as they have done). What I'm less sure about is whether we have a moral obligation to help Ukraine.

No, it's not a moral issue at all, it's a commercial one on one side and a security one on the other.

[woody1]

Putin's Russia is a danger to all of Europe.

Ironically, probably less so after 3 years of war. His military can't be in that good shape if he's having to beg favours from other countries (soldiers from North Korea, Iranian drones etc).

Don't know if this is true or not but I read in a few places that it's only the war effort keeping the Russian economy afloat. Either way, it's definitely in a bad way.

Why can't the fecker do us all (including Russians) a favour, and just peg it.

[woody1]

I'm not sure I understand why we are very concerned about Russia invading Ukraine. It is a war. There are hundreds of wars going on all around the world all the time, and we don't get involved unless it threatens our national interests. What's different about Russia and Ukraine?

That's a valid question.

Although there was a risk that, if Putin had had an easy ride in Ukraine, he might have gone on to invade other European neighbours, I somehow doubt it. I couldn't see him attacking a NATO country.

Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing how things would have unfolded if we hadn't armed Ukraine. Fork in the road and all that.

[Paddy]

That's a valid question.

Although there was a risk that, if Putin had had an easy ride in Ukraine, he might have gone on to invade other European neighbours, I somehow doubt it. I couldn't see him attacking a NATO country.

Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing how things would have unfolded if we hadn't armed Ukraine. Fork in the road and all that.

I would have thought that previously however, I listened to Putin's speech in Russian the day before the "special operation", it was clear he was going to take over the entire Ukraine and push back NATO. That would include eastern Poland. Putin is now after NATO to withdraw from Romania and Bulgaria. Ironically Ceausesu's defences were built to prevent an invasion from the USSR and not from the west.

[woody1]

PS. another sign of how weak Russia now is...

They allowed Assad's Syria to fall. No way that would have happened if they hadn't invaded Ukraine.